My Trouble with 2-Part: What does a Calcium Reactor Fix?

[JSB]

Ok, I'm reasonably convinced that I need a calcium reactor by what I have been told by many and what I have read, and by my continual struggle to keep my 2-part dialed in.

Let me start by saying that 2-Part has always been touted as a "balanced" solution, however, my balance is getting more and more whacked out. In essence, to maintain Alk ~8dKh, and Ca ~ 450ppm, it is currently requiring me to dos 190ml/week of Alk to 120ml/week of calcium, rounding off, the is a 3:2 ratio.

Now, with a Calcium Reactor I will be able to fire and forget basically, or so I am told, but I have some lingering doubt. Since I can no longer control Alk and Ca independently, how do I keep my Alk in check? Is that by topping off with Kalkwasser? While that seems not to be uncommon, it does not seem to be very precise, and it only replaces one pain (maintaining dosing) with another (constantly mixing kalkwasser).

So my question is, in my seemingly unusually off-balance system, does a Ca Reactor really make my life any easier? If so, how?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Tomoko Schum]

A calcium reactor is not as hands free as we are led to believe imho. I am tweeking it periodically to make sure that the gas bubble rate and the effluent drip rate stay constant. If I had a pH monitor, a reef controller, and a solenoid valve, that may keep the the concentration of the effluent solution relatively stable, but the valve for the effluent will still try to slow down on me.

The so-called "balanced" solution is only theoretical. In actuality corals take in a small amount of magnesium and strontium in place of calcium, they will use less calcium than the ratio of 20 ppm calcium to 1 meq/l of alkalinity, thus breaking the balance between calcium and alkalinity. Nitrogen cycling is still going on in your tank every day and reduces the alkalinity slightly as well.

This article by Dr. Randy Holmes Farley explains about the calcium and alkalinity imbalance very well.

 

[JSB]

Tomoko,

Thanks. After reading that article, my gut feeling is that I am seeing the "chemical mirage" that he was talking about. Therefore, I believe his statement "If an aquarist is supplying a balanced additive to his aquarium, and calcium seems stable but alkalinity is declining, it may very well be that what is needed is more of the balanced additive, not just alkalinity." may apply to my situation, as my tank is not old enough, nor my habits skewed enough to support the latter scenarios. So, it appears to me that I need to increase my Ca to the 190ml/week level currently in place for my Alk. Would you agree? If I am wrong, at what level does elevated Ca start having toxic impact, as I would hate to overdose it.

I think a Calcium Reactor could be beneficial IF I can solve this dosing problem first, as I will be using a controller, probe, and solenoid to control it. However, I need to prove to myself that this can be corrected by the methods identified by Dr. Farley.

 

[redtop03]

Tomoko,

Thanks. After reading that article, my gut feeling is that I am seeing the "chemical mirage" that he was talking about. Therefore, I believe his statement "If an aquarist is supplying a balanced additive to his aquarium, and calcium seems stable but alkalinity is declining, it may very well be that what is needed is more of the balanced additive, not just alkalinity." may apply to my situation, as my tank is not old enough, nor my habits skewed enough to support the latter scenarios. So, it appears to me that I need to increase my Ca to the 190ml/week level currently in place for my Alk. Would you agree? If I am wrong, at what level does elevated Ca start having toxic impact, as I would hate to overdose it.

I think a Calcium Reactor could be beneficial IF I can solve this dosing problem first, as I will be using a controller, probe, and solenoid to control it. However, I need to prove to myself that this can be corrected by the methods identified by Dr. Farley.

this is exactly what I had to do as well,my alk was dropping but Ca remained very stable....per RHFs article,I increased both to the same amount until I had it dialed in,I now only test Ca monthly and alk bi-weekly to see if I need to increase dosage,if I need to increase it,both get the increase...mine is staying very stable now....for whatever reason,the Ca didn't increase as much as I thought it would with the increase in it's dosage,it is a balance thing I suppose

I don't think you'll need a Ca reactor just yet,but to my understanding,once you have all the equipment,the media is a lot less expensive than 2-part dosing.....

I will eventually move to a Ca reactor once 2-part dosing becomes too expensive or troublesome to mix for me,right now,it is keeping up with my tanks growth just fine...I use the BRS 2 part and am very happy with the results

 

[Tomoko Schum]

You are probably right about simply seeing the mirage. I would keep adding calcium and alkalinity material to create the one to one ratio.

Since I do not use a two part system, I cannot recommend how much of what you need to add per week. In my system, I either increase or decrease the Ca reactor effluent flow to keep the alkalinity level steady. Once the flow rate is established, I don't have to worry about anything other than the output valve clogging and slowing down the effluent. As you remember, I was struggling with the CO2 bubble rate recently. I think I figured out my problem and I no longer have to worry about the bubble rate fluctuation (knock on wood.)

 

[JSB]

Well, my plan is to increase alk slightly, and make a significant increase in Ca (~33%) to get the two parts in balance. Then I will monitor closely for a while to see where things are going.

Glad to hear that you got your problem worked out, and thanks to both of you posting here for your feedback.

 

[redtop03]

no problem.....hope you get yours dialed in....it's best to get both levels to an acceptable level first and start from there with your daily dosage,give your new dosage a few days to settle in and see where you're at before changing it again,it took me a couple weeks to get mine dialed in

 

[pickupman66]

I have never been a dose type of reefer. if its automatic, its for me! :smile: I use a Calcium reactor and love it. once dialed in, the only adjustments needed are as the tank grows. a CaRx can be expensive to setup but in my opinion, it is the way to go for stabilty in the tank. currently, my alk never wavers and Ca is always where it needs to be. I am currently at 9.1dKh and 440 Ca.

 

[redtop03]

I have never been a dose type of reefer. if its automatic, its for me! :smile: I use a Calcium reactor and love it. once dialed in, the only adjustments needed are as the tank grows. a CaRx can be expensive to setup but in my opinion, it is the way to go for stabilty in the tank. currently, my alk never wavers and Ca is always where it needs to be. I am currently at 9.1dKh and 440 Ca.

I know exactly what you mean,if I had to go back to manual dosing,I'd be looking hard for a Ca reactor myself.....I want one bad,I just can't afford it yet,plus,my wife would kill me after spending so much on this dosing stuff :lol:

I purchased a Bubble Magus 3 pump doser,so I'm in full auto mode too still not as easy as I keep hearing about with the Ca reactors but it is working great for me...my KH is holding steady at 9 dkh today,same as it was 2 weeks ago,Ca at 420 today,same as a month ago,mag 1300 today,same as a month ago..

first time since I set it up that I didn't have to increase the dosage,I did increase the drip rate of my kalk stirrer a little though,I only run it at night time to balance out the pH swing....

 

[JSB]

Oh, I do auto-dosing as well, doing 12 equal doses of each every day. However, I am constantly testing and adjusting the amounts as well as making manual corrections and it never seems to stick Tomoko and H@rry have me about convinced on the reactor, but I want to know that I don't have to do some other additional step as well. I don;t one to trade one pain for another.

 

[H@rry]

I tried two part dosing when I first got started and it did work but I could never get the parms to remain stable. They would seesaw up and down where one week Ca would be high and the next week Alk would be high. I had read about calcium reactors and decided to buy one and give it a try. I bought a Geo when he was building them and selling direct to reefers. When I got it I didn't know what I had so I called Geo and he was very helpful in explaining how to put everything together and use it. As a matter of fact, he seemed so helpful it's hard to believe he is the same one that booted me from RC several years later.

After I had used it a while and understood how to dial it in the parms seems to settle down and remain pretty stable. I did have to continually monitor the CO2 bubble rate and the effluent drip rate and adjust them periodically. Seems like as the media wore down the dust would keep clogging the pinch valve, but hey, it was working.

Next step: controller, pH monitor, and solenoid valve. Now, I had finally arrived! I took the pinch valve off the effluent drip and ran a steady stream out so it never gets clogged or slows down. I set the controller to maintain a constant pH in the reactor. Then I let the controller do it's work. Now I check the Alk every week and if it is too low I decrease the pH setting, if too high I increase it. I have adjusted it on the big system 3 times since April when I last refilled it with media. The media is about ready to be replaced now. I have noticed that as the media becomes depleted you will sometimes have to lower the pH to maintain the same Alk reading but I think I do that because I'm too lazy to replace the media like I should.

I check my Alk every Monday and since Aug 7 it has ranged from 7.0 - 7.8. I haven't checked Ca or Mg since Apr 9 and they were 430 and 1275 respectably. I've found that if I keep the Alk within range they seem to follow along.

A calcium reactor is a pretty good capital outlay to begin with but I guess it will eventually pay off in the savings of the 2 part chemicals. I actually built a couple out of plexiglas from Home Depot. There is no reason why they have to be round, mine are square. Works fine. The 20# CO2 tank will initially cost over $100 unless you watch Craigslist. To refill it costs about $20 - $25. I just plain don't want to deal with having to dose something every day and watch the levels seesaw.

 

[pickupman66]

+1 on the ccontroller. Way better than measuring bubbles and flow.

Sent from my SGH-I897 using Tapatalk 2

 

[redtop03]

I've found that if I keep the Alk within range they seem to follow along.

exactly....same here with 2 part dosing

IMO,all 2 parts aren't created equally either,lots of people use the DIY 2 part and it seems to work well for them but I've never tried it,because I feel it is critical to precisely mix all the chemicals and I just don't want to deal with that hassle,but to my understanding,DIY 2 part is the least expensive route to take,even less then a Ca reactor,IDK but money talks loudly sometimes

I use BRS 2 part as it is pharmaceutical grade and seems to be consistent....when mixing it with water,precise measurements of each powder is critical too,IMO.....though I don't know for sure,but I would assume if you add a little to much or too little of the powder to the water,you'll either have a stronger or weaker mixture of whichever fluid,therefore effecting the levels of dosage needed to maintain stable parameters...I try to be as precise as possible with my mixing,I only use the 1 gallon jugs from BRS and a measuring cup and/or spoon designed specifically for precise measures...may not be perfect but it is consistent

with the Ca reactor,both Ca and Alk are dissolved in equal parts so dosing of each are precise and it doesn't ever get out of balance,big plus for the Ca reactor and I already know that running a Ca reactor would be less expensive for me than purchasing the 2 part powders from BRS which will only get more expensive as my tanks uptake increases,I just can't afford the reactor equipment right now

 

[Tomoko Schum]

Dr. Sanjay Joshi had some good comments on regulator-controller called carbon doser. If I were to get a controller and a solenoid, I'd go with this thing.

 

[pickupman66]

I have heard good things on those. They are nice.

sent from my Galaxy with Tapatalk 2

 

[tinctorus]

exactly....same here with 2 part dosing

IMO,all 2 parts aren't created equally either,lots of people use the DIY 2 part and it seems to work well for them but I've never tried it,because I feel it is critical to precisely mix all the chemicals and I just don't want to deal with that hassle,but to my understanding,DIY 2 part is the least expensive route to take,even less then a Ca reactor,IDK but money talks loudly sometimes

I use BRS 2 part as it is pharmaceutical grade and seems to be consistent....when mixing it with water,precise measurements of each powder is critical too,IMO.....though I don't know for sure,but I would assume if you add a little to much or too little of the powder to the water,you'll either have a stronger or weaker mixture of whichever fluid,therefore effecting the levels of dosage needed to maintain stable parameters...I try to be as precise as possible with my mixing,I only use the 1 gallon jugs from BRS and a measuring cup and/or spoon designed specifically for precise measures...may not be perfect but it is consistent

with the Ca reactor,both Ca and Alk are dissolved in equal parts so dosing of each are precise and it doesn't ever get out of balance,big plus for the Ca reactor and I already know that running a Ca reactor would be less expensive for me than purchasing the 2 part powders from BRS which will only get more expensive as my tanks uptake increases,I just can't afford the reactor equipment right now

If you want to be really precise you could always pick up a digital scale, they are not all that expensive and can be used more often than you would think, You could even get one at bass pro shops or whatever outdoor store is by you, just use the digital scale they use for ammo reloading for weighing powder charges

 

[JSB]

Dr. Sanjay Joshi had some good comments on regulator-controller called carbon doser. If I were to get a controller and a solenoid, I'd go with this thing.

That looks pretty cool, but since I already have a controller, I think I would be making a mistake not to go with what I have plus a pH probe.

 

[H@rry]

That looks pretty cool, but since I already have a controller, I think I would be making a mistake not to go with what I have plus a pH probe.

Agreed, you're already halfway there! With a controller bubble rate is not that critical as that is not what controls the internal pH in the CaRX.

 

[Tomoko Schum]

For those of you who have a controller, a normal Ca reactor set-up with a good regulator and a solenoid valve would suffice. Keep in mind that the majority of pH probes require a periodic calibration and need to be replaced once a year as a general rule.

However, for someone like me who does not use a controller, the carbon-doser would be a good option. Just as the aquariumplants site states, it is difficult to control the bubble rate perfectly with a needle valve. I do see the rate changes slightly due to an atomospheric pressure change.

 

[H@rry]

There is nothing you can do to calibrate a pH probe. The way they come from China is the way they are. What you actually do is calibrate your controller/pH Monitor/whatever to report accurately with a particular probe. I recalibrate my controllers when I have to pull the CaRx to replenish the media. That's usually about every 4 to 6 months.

FWIW; I buy the probes from EBay vendors. I suspect they are the same as you get form PinPoint, etc. They seem to all perform the same. I replace them when they fail the calibration test.