My very first ich outbreak!! Yay?

[DSEKULA]

I personally quarentine all my fish to avoid these issues, I understand if your saying you can't but highly recommend considering in the future as fighting after dt introduction can be a real pain. Here's a link to the R2R sticky on ich I've followed it for my qt fish that turned up with ich. Maybe it can help. Please keep in mind, I did not write this it's not my experience. As a sticky like it is, it is the r2r version of authority on a topic in my mind and I just wanted to share with you.

On a side note, fresh water and marine ich are two completely different organisms. While there may be some similarities I'd recommend trying to mentally keep them separate and not have expectations of one based on experience with the other.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-eradication-vs-ich-management.188775/

 

[Sharkbait19]

I did the same. Got a clown and a damsel from them when i first started. I mean the VERY first time I put water in a tank.
I just now was able to beat what they gave me a couple months ago. Try fighting off, velvelt, ich, brook, AND flukes. One after the other and sometimes at the same time. I'm telling you from experience man. It's all love here.

Thanks so much for helping! Yeah the clown and firefish were from a good Petco and the gramma was just from an awfully kept one. Beautiful tank by the way!

 

[mattzang]

Yes, an outbreak of ich. That is correct. First one in my new marine tank. Previously I’ve had FW tanks.

those are completely different diseases. you've dealt with Ichthyophthirius multifiliis

marine ich is cryptocaryon irritans. an old treatment for marine ich was to keep the fish at low salinity levels

marine ich is successfully managed by a ton of people. maybe some fish make it, maybe some don't. the fish you have are fairly hardy and could overcome it

some people qt to prevent it getting into their system. i'd suggest at least starting with a clean slate. getting a couple rubbermaid totes and some basic equipment to clear the fish of ich would be a good start. looks like you have a nano tank so it could be done very easily. some people have to go the management route since people with bigger tanks will have massive elaborate aquascapes cemented together. either way, the choice is yours

 

[Sharkbait19]

those are completely different diseases. you've dealt with Ichthyophthirius multifiliis

marine ich is cryptocaryon irritans. an old treatment for marine ich was to keep the fish at low salinity levels

marine ich is successfully managed by a ton of people. maybe some fish make it, maybe some don't. the fish you have are fairly hardy and could overcome it

some people qt to prevent it getting into their system. i'd suggest at least starting with a clean slate. getting a couple rubbermaid totes and some basic equipment to clear the fish of ich would be a good start. looks like you have a nano tank so it could be done very easily. some people have to go the management route since people with bigger tanks will have massive elaborate aquascapes cemented together. either way, the choice is yours

Thanks for the advice!

 

[MetaKnight101]

Ruby rally very safe and effective

I thought these products were "snake oils"

 

[vetteguy53081]

I thought these products were "snake oils"

As reffed to as such. Some work and some don’t. If one doesn’t quarantine, its a chance you take

 

[Lawpoke87]

Like many have already said...if you’re not going to remove the fish and treat then keep them well fed with a high quality food. Soaking the food in selcon or other similar products is never a bad idea. People used garlic to soak foods back in the day but I’m not aware of any studies showing a benefit. Provide as stress free of an environment as possible. High water quality. No new additions to the tank. Many people out there (especially in the old days) have simply managed ich by doing the above things with good results. I’ve found most otherwise healthy non stressed fish can usually successfully deal with ich.

Quarantining is always advisable fwiw.

 

[Jilly92]

What are the chances that in such a small amount, it might just go away? There ain’t much of a reason the fish should be stressed, and I ain’t even sure if what I’m seeing is ich.

the firefish is already looking better, and the basslet seems completely fine despite the few spots. I know that tangs are the most susceptible. What about basslets or clowns? I know firefish are a bit less hardy.

I was dealing with ich a couple weeks ago with my clownfish or maybe it was Brooklynella, I'm not sure. But I dipped my clownfish in rodi water for 5 minutes with a bubbler and a couple days later the spots were gone. All of my fish are currently scratching in the sand with no spots atm. Not sure if its going to just pass or not, but it seems it will.‍

 

[phatduckk]

Alright. Here’s the deal. In a practical sense ich will never go away. It’s always going to be there... here’s the lifecycle https://blog.marinedepot.com/educat...cycle-diagram-cryptocaryon-irritans-treatment

The TLDR is it feeds on the fish for a few days (you see spots), it floats off, reproduces & now that one ich parasite has turned into a hundred. Rinse repeat. So eventually there’s a ton of those dudes in the tank looking for food (aka fish).

this is why folks talk about going fallow. The lifecycle can be broken. After the little buggers hatch they will die in about 4 days max if they don’t feed. So, going fallow is the sure fire way of ridding the tank.

now the fish themselves: none of the meds kill the ich when it’s on the fish. The parasite goes under the skin and is essentially protected. So the copper etc does it’s job when the ich are off the fish swimming around (either looking for a place to encyst and reproduce or they just hatched and are looking for a fish to feed off).

the “sure fire” answer is: “Heal” the fish (qt tank with copper) and make sure your tank doesn’t have any ich eggs laying around waiting to hatch (going fallow for 76 days).

that’s how you get rid of ich. Now if you’d rather manage it instead you’re banking on 2 things 1) the fishes immune system and 2) you somehow reducing the ich population.

#1 is low stress, feed them well etc
#2 employ a UV or a diatom filter to kill the free swimmers. However it’ll never get 100% of them but perhaps will keep the population low in enough where #1 kicks in to keep them safe

theres no magic bullet here. You have 2 choice treat or manage.

personally I’d treat as I don’t want the lingering “worry”.

 

[Sharkbait19]

Like many have already said...if you’re not going to remove the fish and treat then keep them well fed with a high quality food. Soaking the food in selcon or other similar products is never a bad idea. People used garlic to soak foods back in the day but I’m not aware of any studies showing a benefit. Provide as stress free of an environment as possible. High water quality. No new additions to the tank. Many people out there (especially in the old days) have simply managed ich by doing the above things with good results. I’ve found most otherwise healthy non stressed fish can usually successfully deal with ich.

Quarantining is always advisable fwiw.

Along with occasional brine shrimp, I feed my dish garlic infused pellets, these:

There’s no true reason they should be stressed as they all get along. The only one I’m worried about not pulling through is my firefish. He doesn’t handle anything out of sorts too well.

I’m trying everything I can do to get them in a quarantine tank, but it simply seems out of question unfortunately. That doesn’t mean I ain’t trying though. Honestly, though I’d love the assurance that the ich is gone, I’m fine just managing it, just to make sure my fish survive. They each only have one spot each. I know, I know, that one spot eventually turns into 100, then 1,000 and so on and so forth. However as long as I can keep them under control, that’s good enough for me.

 

[Bpfor3]

You have all the answers you need right here. i have done both and pulled the few fish i had and went fallow. ich was gone. Unfortunately, i reintroduced it. i think from a frag kept in a dealer tank that also kept fish for sale. Ooops. I now have 13 fish and would have to destroy the reef to get them out. Just not willing to do it. Im feeding heavy, doing weekly water changes, running UV and dosing peroxide, all with the hope of keeping the swimmers down until my fish develop immunity, if that is indeed what actually happens.

Only sure fire way is remove and go fallow. Otherwise, the other things mentioned here work for some and not others. If it was me and had your setup, there would be no question, i would pull the fish and go fallow.

Either way, good luck.

 

[Sharkbait19]

I have excellent news! Today, no “ich” to be found. I talked to someone at an LFS and described the problem. He asked me a bunch of questions and told me that what I have is definitely not ich. He’s seen it with many newcomer fish, and says it’s a common bacterial infection, a reaction to new water (I forgot the name of the infection). Ich, he says, doesn’t stay in one spot and multiplies fast, neither of which I experienced. He said that although I should stay vigilant, what I have in his experience is not ich.

I definitely didn’t hope for a magical solution, but certainly gained assurance today!

 

[Hincapiej4]

I have excellent news! Today, no “ich” to be found. I talked to someone at an LFS and described the problem. He asked me a bunch of questions and told me that what I have is definitely not ich. He’s seen it with many newcomer fish, and says it’s a common bacterial infection, a reaction to new water (I forgot the name of the infection). Ich, he says, doesn’t stay in one spot and multiplies fast, neither of which I experienced. He said that although I should stay vigilant, what I have in his experience is not ich.

I definitely didn’t hope for a magical solution, but certainly gained assurance today!

Dots being a bacterial infection? hmm....ok. I kinda call shenanigans

 

[Sharkbait19]

Dots being a bacterial infection? hmm....ok. I kinda call shenanigans

I kinda agree, but this guy I talked to knows his fishkeeping. And I could tell. I’ve never been to this place, but I can tell you that aside from overpricing, the staff was very knowledgeable.

 

[phatduckk]

I have excellent news! Today, no “ich” to be found.

go back and read the link I posted describing their lifecycle. When you see white spots that's the ich feeding on the fish. This phase lasts 3 days to about a week. After that they come off the fish, the spots "go away" and the parasites go looking for a hard surface to encyst and reproduce. 14-70 days after they encyst the more, new ich hatch and they go back to looking for fish... this is when you'd see white spots again.

So a few things:

1) hopefully the LFS dude is right but I'd be cautious. here's what bacterial infections look like https://humble.fish/bacterial-infections/. I'm not a vet but the pics you posted looked more like ice than an infection to me

2) if the LFS guys is wrong & it's ich the spots will show up again in 4-8 weeks. a worse scenario is that there's ich in their gills (easier for the parasite to penetrate) & in this scenario you wouldn't see white spots

3) the reason many people are cautious is that even if these fish develop an immunity the next fish you introduce might not be immune. So if you plan on more fish in the future being cautious might be worthwhile

good luck

 

[Sharkbait19]

go back and read the link I posted describing their lifecycle. When you see white spots that's the ich feeding on the fish. This phase lasts 3 days to about a week. After that they come off the fish, the spots "go away" and the parasites go looking for a hard surface to encyst and reproduce. 14-70 days after they encyst the more, new ich hatch and they go back to looking for fish... this is when you'd see white spots again.

So a few things:

1) hopefully the LFS dude is right but I'd be cautious. here's what bacterial infections look like https://humble.fish/bacterial-infections/. I'm not a vet but the pics you posted looked more like ice than an infection to me

2) if the LFS guys is wrong & it's ich the spots will show up again in 4-8 weeks. a worse scenario is that there's ich in their gills (easier for the parasite to penetrate) & in this scenario you wouldn't see white spots

3) the reason many people are cautious is that even if these fish develop an immunity the next fish you introduce might not be immune. So if you plan on more fish in the future being cautious might be worthwhile

good luck

Thanks! Though I trust the LFS guy’s experience, I’m obviously gonna play it safe and monitor fish behavior, appearance, etc. Personally I’m still assuming there is ich, as I can’t imagine it being anything else, but there’s nothing wrong with keeping my fingers crossed!
Hopefully this wasn’t ich, because if it disappeared into the sand, then my tank is in for a real treat!!

 

[phatduckk]

Thanks! Though I trust the LFS guy’s experience, I’m obviously gonna play it safe and monitor fish behavior, appearance, etc. Personally I’m still assuming there is ich, as I can’t imagine it being anything else, but there’s nothing wrong with keeping my fingers crossed!
Hopefully this wasn’t ich, because if it disappeared into the sand, then my tank is in for a real treat!!

good luck!

 

[Sharkbait19]

good luck!

Thanks. I’m both happy and scared that the spots are gone. If it resurfaces, at least I am 100% ready. ;Punch

 

[Sharkbait19]

The only thing that really makes me think, “maaaybe it’s not ich” is that it didn’t look imbedded on the fish as much as just there. I’m still not assuming anything, I’m just happy it didn’t turn into anything horrible.....yet...

 

[Hincapiej4]

Well, at least it's not velvet. Everything would be dead by now, so..that's good.