My vodka dosing experience

gamation

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Hi Everyone! Just sharing my experience with vodka dosing in my tank. The reason why i started this dosing was due to high nitrates (always with approximate values of 50 ppm with salifert test .. so it can be much more).

Followed the below dosing method through the tables widely available in several sites and started slowly(350 liters tank):

Week 1 (1-3) 8/26/2015 0.4ml
Week 1 (4-7) 8/29/2015 0.8ml
Week 2 2/9/2015 1.3ml
Week 3 09.09.2015 1,8ml
Week 4 09/16/2015 2,3ml

and so on until this day. The values at the begginig of the experiment: No3 50 / Po4 0.02 / KH 8.5 / 450 Ca / Mg 1400

I was aware that the fact that the Po4 values as low could eventually be a limiting factor for an effective reduction of nitrates - during this time i haven't used ATI's anti-phosphate resins to see if phosphates rose slightly or at least maintain.

During these months I never used bacteria to complement this test.

I reached the end of November without noticing absolutely nothing differently in terms of nitrate reduction (always remained in the 50 ppm). The unique differences I noticed were perhaps greater clarity in the water column (but had never experienced difficulties in this regard due to the regular use of activated carbon). The skimmer (Deltec 1455) was skimming as usual - always pulled a lot of gunk. The cup began to fill up a little faster and the water was darker and smellier. This was the only (very little) "change" noticed by the end of Novemeber which led me to believe that i was on the right track and that sooner or later the nitrate levels would fall. But i was wrong.

So far all the inhabitants of the aquarium were in good health. I did not notice any differences for the worse in corals.

By the 16th week, four months after starting this experiment, i was dosing 8 ml of vodka every day (divided into two doses of 4 ml - 1 just before lights on and the remaining 4 ml about 6 hours later, always with the dosing pump and checked often to make sure vodka was being dosed correctly). I never got the milky water aquarium or anything that indicated possible vodka overdosing due to a bacteria bloom. At this point I began thinking that by this time i should had seen results already. I know that all tanks are different, that this hobby nothing good happens quickly and that this process of reduction in nitrates can take its time. But the fact is that a bottle of vodka was almost gone, I had already spent 16 weeks and everything was the same - no drop in nitrates. I began to consider giving up this method, starting to reduce vodka doses in order to fully stop and think of an alternative.

It was on the 2nd week of December that I began seeing adverse changes in some of my corals (2 montiporas, 1 green and 1 red whose tips have started to appear bleached/burnt and a Fungia coral beginning to have white patches). My Kh had risen slightly and was at 8.9 which led me to think that this was the main reason - I had read that this could happen when vodka dosing and that kh should be kept as close to NSW as possible (so lower). At this time, I only slightly reduced Kh dosing to lower the value slowly. I did not change the amount of vodka introduced.

I waited a few more days to see how the situation evolved and reached the present day. The bleaching continued (fortunately only in these corals) but that was enough for me. It was way too much time dosing vodka without any results. So I reduced the dose to half and will slowly reduce until a complete stop.

I regret that this did not work for me. I would really like to understand what i could have done differently. I could perhaps have introduced bacteria .. maybe it would have helped.

Do you think I should insist on this method due to having spent so much time and the nitrates level would finally start to come down? I accept suggestions! I'm really sorry for the Fungia coral - I had it in the tank almost a year (my tank is almost 2 years) and despite not having died yet, there are some spots where I can see the skeleton.

I apologize for this long text and some help is appreciated.

Thank You All,
PG
 
My experience with vodka dosing was that it did take quite a while (a couple of months) before I saw any real results, but when nitrate did start to go down, it then more or less plummeted over about a two week period from very high (I forget the exact numbers, but my nitrate was well over 50 PPM to start with) to below 5 PPM, and then to unmeasurable. It was really dramatic once it finally began to "kick in". For me, the first sign that it was really doing something was when the film on the inside of the glass went from being green to being white.

I have experienced "burnt tips" in some corals, but this was long after nitrates became unmeasurable, and then only when I tried to deliberately *increase* nitrate by reducing the amount of vodka being dosed. In my case, I was dosing vodka in the first place because I was having trouble keeping corals alive, and so during the early "waiting for it to finally work" phase, my tank was best described as a FOWLR with some soft corals. I would now describe it as an SPS-dominant mixed reef.
 
Very nice! Than you for your help! Now that you mentioned it i think yesterday i noticed that white film on the glass. So maybe the nitrate drop could be imminent!
 
Just for reference, I was up to 16 ml a day ( took about 4 months) till my nitrates started coming down in my 75 gallon.
N03 was about 80 or so when I started. Slowly was able to back of to 4 ml a day, and after 6 months or so my n03 was unreadable so I stopped dosing completely. Did not have any Sps so I can't say anything about that.
 
Hi,

thank you all for your help. I've just tested the tank water and the values are: Salinity: 1.025 / Temp 26ºc / Ca 440 / Mg 1420 / Kh 7.6 / Po4 0.02 / No3 50 (or more).

I had stopped dosing Kh so i could reach this 7.6 value. I've now already configured the dosing pump to dose Kh normally. Phosphates are undetectable and nitrates are the same. Mg is little high but I'm not dosing at the moment.

Pics below:

NO3:
yJDnTC3.jpg


PO4:
n2juy65.jpg


FTS (just taken - lights turned on a hour ago):
gddsAYT.jpg


FTS taken on November:
xGoRSBd.jpg


Notice the Fungia on the sand full of white patches and some plates and green montis also showing white spots.

I've cleaned the white film from the glass. This white film should be good news right? For now the vodka dosing is 2ml + 2ml (half of what I was dosing). I've also added activated carbon on the reactor.

what do you guys think I should do next? Do you think the phosphate readings are limiting the drop in nitrates?

Thank you so much for your help.
PG
 
Hi Randy! I only have this JBL phosphate test.. when I mentioned undetectable is because the colour of the test do not change (as you can see from the PO4 test picture above).

Thank you for your help
PG
 
Hi Everyone! Just sharing my experience with vodka dosing in my tank. The reason why i started this dosing was due to high nitrates (always with approximate values of 50 ppm with salifert test .. so it can be much more).

Followed the below dosing method through the tables widely available in several sites and started slowly(350 liters tank):

Week 1 (1-3) 8/26/2015 0.4ml
Week 1 (4-7) 8/29/2015 0.8ml
Week 2 2/9/2015 1.3ml
Week 3 09.09.2015 1,8ml
Week 4 09/16/2015 2,3ml

and so on until this day. The values at the begginig of the experiment: No3 50 / Po4 0.02 / KH 8.5 / 450 Ca / Mg 1400

I was aware that the fact that the Po4 values as low could eventually be a limiting factor for an effective reduction of nitrates - during this time i haven't used ATI's anti-phosphate resins to see if phosphates rose slightly or at least maintain.

During these months I never used bacteria to complement this test.

I reached the end of November without noticing absolutely nothing differently in terms of nitrate reduction (always remained in the 50 ppm). The unique differences I noticed were perhaps greater clarity in the water column (but had never experienced difficulties in this regard due to the regular use of activated carbon). The skimmer (Deltec 1455) was skimming as usual - always pulled a lot of gunk. The cup began to fill up a little faster and the water was darker and smellier. This was the only (very little) "change" noticed by the end of Novemeber which led me to believe that i was on the right track and that sooner or later the nitrate levels would fall. But i was wrong.

So far all the inhabitants of the aquarium were in good health. I did not notice any differences for the worse in corals.

By the 16th week, four months after starting this experiment, i was dosing 8 ml of vodka every day (divided into two doses of 4 ml - 1 just before lights on and the remaining 4 ml about 6 hours later, always with the dosing pump and checked often to make sure vodka was being dosed correctly). I never got the milky water aquarium or anything that indicated possible vodka overdosing due to a bacteria bloom. At this point I began thinking that by this time i should had seen results already. I know that all tanks are different, that this hobby nothing good happens quickly and that this process of reduction in nitrates can take its time. But the fact is that a bottle of vodka was almost gone, I had already spent 16 weeks and everything was the same - no drop in nitrates. I began to consider giving up this method, starting to reduce vodka doses in order to fully stop and think of an alternative.

It was on the 2nd week of December that I began seeing adverse changes in some of my corals (2 montiporas, 1 green and 1 red whose tips have started to appear bleached/burnt and a Fungia coral beginning to have white patches). My Kh had risen slightly and was at 8.9 which led me to think that this was the main reason - I had read that this could happen when vodka dosing and that kh should be kept as close to NSW as possible (so lower). At this time, I only slightly reduced Kh dosing to lower the value slowly. I did not change the amount of vodka introduced.

I waited a few more days to see how the situation evolved and reached the present day. The bleaching continued (fortunately only in these corals) but that was enough for me. It was way too much time dosing vodka without any results. So I reduced the dose to half and will slowly reduce until a complete stop.

I regret that this did not work for me. I would really like to understand what i could have done differently. I could perhaps have introduced bacteria .. maybe it would have helped.

Do you think I should insist on this method due to having spent so much time and the nitrates level would finally start to come down? I accept suggestions! I'm really sorry for the Fungia coral - I had it in the tank almost a year (my tank is almost 2 years) and despite not having died yet, there are some spots where I can see the skeleton.

I apologize for this long text and some help is appreciated.

Thank You All,
PG
I dosed racing fuel for 2 years and didnt start seeing anything till 6 months into it, when bleaching or rtn/stn happens while ur carbon dosing (i) believe its because of bacteria, or some type of alk burn, if my alk were to ever come over 8.5 my stonys wouldnt like it and do to the 100s of dollars in test kits that all give me different readings still to this day , i stopped it completely
 
I dosed racing fuel for 2 years and didnt start seeing anything till 6 months into it, when bleaching or rtn/stn happens while ur carbon dosing (i) believe its because of bacteria, or some type of alk burn, if my alk were to ever come over 8.5 my stonys wouldnt like it and do to the 100s of dollars in test kits that all give me different readings still to this day , i stopped it completely

What was in that fuel?
 
OK. I was just worried it might have hydrocarbons or nitromethane. :)
Lol reading one of ur articles or post cant really remember a while back about methanol as a carbon source had me try this instead of vinegar, i had the fuel in my house already so i gave it a shot
 
Hello,

Thank you all for your comments. One of the reasons I started this thread was to gather opinions regarding the time taken to lower the nitrates when vodka dosing. Since I was dosing for 6 months and nothing good had happened (only bad things) I'm now in the process of lowering the dosage until full stop. Now I know that for a lot of you that tried the vodka method to lower nitrates, 6 months were not enough, a bit different from the cases I had read about when first studying the dosing method.. but every aquarium is different.

What I've learned from this:

- I believe vodka dosing does work. But it's really not meant to lower high values of NO3/PO4. I think it really works when trying to achieve an Ultra Low Nutrient System in an already balanced system. Not really to rely on to lower high values of Nitrates.

- When first beggining vodka dosing make sure your water levels are as close to Natural Sea Water as possible. KH level is very important here. If it gets over 8.5 you may start getting burned tips - mostly on SPS corals. Keep it between 7 and 8 and you should be fine.

- Your NO3 level won't go down if you have undetectable PO4 (or really low level) on your aquarium water - no matter hom much vodka you throw at it.

- The problem with this is that you keep following the vodka dosing charts and upping the vodka levels always looking for the NO3 drop that never happens until one day you may find that you have overdosed your tank with really bad consequences to your corals.

- A big efficient skimmer is really important.

- It might take a while until you notice any changes (or so i've read..)


I haven't lost any fish but my corals suffered and are still recovering. I think the reason why I had corals starting to STN/RTN and why this didn't work for me: High KH level (almost 9) and low PO4 level that didn't let NO3 drop.

Hope this experience (one more one the web) might help others!

Happy New Year to You All!

PG
 
Just curious how can you keep up with the bacteria creating the nitrate by adding vodka to reduce it?

Youd be surprised how much nitrate that sand bed is producing and not consuming. It looks too shallow and coarse grained to perform good denitrification.
 
Just curious how can you keep up with the bacteria creating the nitrate by adding vodka to reduce it?

Youd be surprised how much nitrate that sand bed is producing and not consuming. It looks too shallow and coarse grained to perform good denitrification.

Hi Cory! I'm not sure I understand your question. Isn't that the purpose of vodka to increase bacteria that would help reducing nitrates? You're saying that i did not add any bacteria (like MB7 or Probidio) to help with the vodka dosage?

About the sand bed.. I'm sure the sand bed is not helping with the nitrates but that was never the intention or I would have done a DSB. And i thought about that but.. this is my first reef tank and i don't (didn't) have much experience and i guess a lot could go wrong with a DSB.

Do you think i should remove the sand? I vacuum it at least once a month. It's not really coarse.. but it's not DSB sized..

Thanks!
PG
 
Hi Cory! I'm not sure I understand your question. Isn't that the purpose of vodka to increase bacteria that would help reducing nitrates? You're saying that i did not add any bacteria (like MB7 or Probidio) to help with the vodka dosage?

About the sand bed.. I'm sure the sand bed is not helping with the nitrates but that was never the intention or I would have done a DSB. And i thought about that but.. this is my first reef tank and i don't (didn't) have much experience and i guess a lot could go wrong with a DSB.

Do you think i should remove the sand? I vacuum it at least once a month. It's not really coarse.. but it's not DSB sized..

Thanks!
PG

What i mean is that high nitrate level is coming from somewhere. The most likely place is the sand because its got lots of organics. Those bacteria in there are not doing denitrification- that's obvious by your test for no3. However what those bacteria are doing is producing no3.

If it was me I wouldnt want to remove the sand. Sand looks cool. First id try is stop vaccuming the sand. That kills the hypoxic area that help remove nitrate. If that doesnt work after a month then Id try an algae turf scrubber. Waterfall version.

Oh yeah, and id stop vodka dosing.
 
Imo vacuum the hell out of your sand- I've done this for years/ I do run a low nutrient system the white bacteria film you had on your glass is a good sign don't give up on carbon dosing maybe cut back a little at this point and watch to see if it starts to come down. I you have vacuumed in the past start with small areas 10-20% but clean it to the glass bottom. I normally use a vacuum with the hose going into a 100micron sock in my sump, also I did come off a zeosystem and into Red Sea about a year ago which gave me the right bacteria and I still use 2 drops of zeobac very two weeks
 
What i mean is that high nitrate level is coming from somewhere. The most likely place is the sand because its got lots of organics. Those bacteria in there are not doing denitrification- that's obvious by your test for no3. However what those bacteria are doing is producing no3.

If it was me I wouldnt want to remove the sand. Sand looks cool. First id try is stop vaccuming the sand. That kills the hypoxic area that help remove nitrate. If that doesnt work after a month then Id try an algae turf scrubber. Waterfall version.

Oh yeah, and id stop vodka dosing.
Curious. In a shallow sand bed is there really an effective hypoxic area of any benificit? It seems there's more harm than good not vaccuming the sand. Judging by the rotten food and super funk etc that gets stirred up in a poorly maintained shallow bed. my DSB never gets that funky.
 

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