Mysterious SPS Deaths

[Mattrg02]

Hello all,
I am having some terrible luck with SPS corals...

The back story:
I moved my current tank to a new apartment two weeks ago. It had been running for 3 years. Had alot of SPS, LPS, and zoas.

I decided to use a new, rimless, Mr Aqua low iron tank instead of the acrylic tank. Long story short, I lost everything but the zoas and a clown fish. Every single coral died. One by one...

I believe this was due to the following:
1- Only kept half the live rocks as the others were filthy.
2- Went bare bottom, leaving behind the nasty sand bed. (It wasnt even an inch thick and compacted with detritus.
3-Only used less than half the original water, going with LFS water instead. I never allowed the LFS water to aerate outside for pH.

I think that all of the above led to a cycle that killed everything over the course of a few days...Ammonia was 2ppm.

Okay, so I went to the LFS and got new, cured, live rock for the tank. After adding the new live rock, the cycle quickly ended. I did a few water changes and waited a week. Everything seemed stable, with all the zoas fully open and colorful.

CURRENTLY-
Got brave and took home some SPS corals from the LFS with prices I couldnt refuse.

I am now seeing a Jedi Mind Trick monitpora dissolving away. Upon placing in the tank, it started showing immediate slime, as if it had been roughed up some. It was fine (showing its polyps and all) until last night. Today, it is clearly a goner. Looks like it is just dissolving away.

Im on my way to get new tests for alkalinity, calcium, and phosphates since these are all long expired. (After a few years of stability, I just stopped testing).

0 Ammonia
5ppm Nitrates
78F
1.026 Salinity

Using an a160 Tuna Blue Kessil turned down low (over a 17g tank)
mp10wes set for reef crest mode

What are some things to consider here? Any ideas? Never had a montipora just dissolve away like it is.

Should add, that today I see the water is a little milky. I'm assuming this is bacteria bloom? Only thing I changed was to swap out carbon for gfo in my aquaclear filter.

Matt

 

[Mattrg02]

UPDATE-
I just picked up an API Alkalinity test...If it isnt faulty, its indicating 17dKH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just tested the LFS saltwater and it is the same...How is this possible? Could this be the cause of the sps deaths? Any tips to lower this?

 

[Mattrg02]

Where did the edit button go?

Okay, so I have a few other tests done. Both on tank and LFS saltwater:
API Tests
Calcium = 460ppm
dKH = 17-18
phosphates = 0
Nitrates = 5-10ppm
SG = 35
pH = 7.8 to 8

So far, just the Jedi Mind Trick is gone. (Still has slight hints of color and polyps though).
There is a sunset monti that seems very happy...Has its polyps out in very high flow from the mp10. The zoas and palys are all out as well. The fish (clown and sixline wrasse) are zooming all over. Hermits and snails out doing their thing.

Water is still a bit milky.

How bad is that high alkalinity? I have no idea how to lower it since the LFS water is that high also. Seeing as the calcium is high, could the high alkalinity be a fluke?

 

[gojk]

Is 17-18 dKH even possible? I would suspect that at 17-18 dKH it would start precipitating and you would be losing alk and calcium. Maybe the milky water is the alk precipitating out. Do you have another test kit that you can use?

 

[Mattrg02]

Is 17-18 dKH even possible? I would suspect that at 17-18 dKH it would start precipitating and you would be losing alk and calcium. Maybe the milky water is the alk precipitating out. Do you have another test kit that you can use?

This is what I suspected, at first, but testing the calcium, it's also high at 460ppm. In previous years, while dosing calcium and alkalinity buffers, I have seen calcium precipitate out as a snow. I don't have another alkalinity test to contrast with...

Whats strange to me, is that my other corals (sps included) aren't behaving the same. I know that my LFS uses Reef Crystals, and that they have been known to have high alkalinity, but has anyone ever seen high dKH values and SPS deaths?

 

[Tahoe61]

If you can not double check that value and your not using a buffer then I doubt the value is correct. Check the expiration date on the kit. Get another kit or check it against one at the LFS.

Sorry to hear that you lost all your sps, unfortunately that is why sps are considered much more difficult.

 

[Mattrg02]

Ok, I just made my own batch with some reef crystals that I got last week. It came out to about 11dKH with my API test. Seems it's the LFS water.

Could very high dKH cause sps to stn?

Looks like I better get back into making my own water again.

 

[Diesel]

Are you sure your DKH was 17?? as that's deadly to all stony corals.

Here you have a site to read your ALK three ways.

http://saltyzoo.com/SaltyCalcs/AlkConv.php

 

[Tahoe61]

Yes any significant swing in chemistry is enough to cause issues. It's been my experience that sps are more reactive to changes in alkalinity than other corals, LPS might start to show tissue regression and soft coral and zonathids are more tolerant than sps.

 

[Mattrg02]

I'm very sure. Did the test several times on the tank as well as new water from LFS. Got 17dKH with the API test. Then, made my own water and got 11dKH. I probably need to talk to the LFS. They might have a bad batch of salt or something.

Zoas closed up for a time, then opened all back up.

The sunset monti seems unaffected aside from a slight loss in brightness.
Has its polyps out in the current.

After doing a water change with the water I made, it's now at 15dKH.
I'll start doing very small water changes with my own water until it's in a sane range. About how slow should I go?

 

[Diesel]

Let your tank mature as is for the next two months.
Get everything in check and try to go a better rout than API on a test kit for ALK. IMO the Hanna checker is flawless.
If you keep RC as you salt keep it mixing with a pump for about a week as ALK will drop close to 9/9.5 what is a better range.
Not sure if I missed it but what do you use to dose your ALK/CAL/MAG?
How and with what you test PO4? When it's really 0.0 you might want to have your ALK close to 8 as LNS don't like their ALK high.

 

[Mattrg02]

In not dosing anything seeing as there isn't much in there now. I'll look into a Hanna for ALK.

Phosphate was tested on API test as well.

Is 15dKH still lethal? Should I work on bringing it down, or just leave it alone for now?

 

[Diesel]

In not dosing anything seeing as there isn't much in there now. I'll look into a Hanna for ALK.

Phosphate was tested on API test as well.

Is 15dKH still lethal? Should I work on bringing it down, or just leave it alone for now?

Bring it down slowly even you have no SPS in there.
Hanna has also a good PO4 checker, go with the ultra low.
I have this checker for a few years. http://shop.hannainst.com/products/...-phosphate-low-range-portable-photometer.html

 

[Mattrg02]

Bring it down slowly even you have no SPS in there.
Hanna has also a good PO4 checker, go with the ultra low.
I have this checker for a few years. http://shop.hannainst.com/products/...-phosphate-low-range-portable-photometer.html

I've got a few sps in there still. The Jedi mind trick dissolved away, leaving what looks like a few red polyps still holding out.

For the sake of the others, should I bring down the alkalinity more, or should 15dKH be okay for now?

If it is still lethal, how fast should I be reducing it? I could get some regular IO salt that mixes to a much lower alkalinity and start doing water changes.

Thanks,
Matt

 

[Vividgraphx]

any update?

 

[Mattrg02]

Still have sps deaths. No idea why. My guess is that my sps are using 0 alkalinity yet my tank is processing nitrates thus keeping my alkalinity high.

Things I've done and noticed:
1 - I switched to neomarine salt since it has very low alkalinity values.
2-I stopped dosing nitrates and just feed more. Also took my skimmer off line.

3- I added more flow,
Despite having my mp10 cranked all the way up.

4-switched from kessil 360we to hydra 26HD

Observations:

1-Montiporas were the first to stn

2-Color still washed out despite nitrates holding strong.

3-Alkalinity goes up when I slip on water changes. I usually do once per week. I went to two weeks and have all montiporas stn on me. Alkalinity went from around 8.5 to 9.5dkh.

I've spent a lot of money on this tank and have done all that I can to keep parameters stable. Maybe adding a super cheap sps colony will soak up the alkalinity and keep it down? I think that's my problem. My frags aren't growing and using dkh thus allowing it to climb due to nitrates being used up by algea?

Maybe a full sized birdsnest colony would help?

 

[Vividgraphx]

what size tank do you have and what filtration?

 

[Mattrg02]

what size tank do you have and what filtration?

17g
Filtration is a 9002 tunze skimmer. I recently took it off line to see if it helped/hurt things.