Mystery system die-off

maxxin69 · Jun 22, 2015

My tank has been going downhill, and nobody local can figure out why. Here is what I know about my tank. All of my parameters have remained the same before my system began going downhill (alk 7.4, calcium 440, mag 1360, nitrate 5, ammonia and nitrite 0, phosphates range from .02-.07). My pH usually swings from 8 to 7.8 at night, and my temp has been a constant 78. I recently ordered a triton test and got my results back and the highest deviation was my aluminium which was 60 ppb over what they recommend, so that didn't help me. My RO/DI water has been constantly reading 0 and I have been doing water changes with RSCP salt. My area doesn't use chloramines, and the tank was running fine with the same parameters for about 6 months. The tank is a little over a year old now.

I tried running carbon to see if there was any toxin but the carbon didn't help. I do run caluerpa in my fuge, but there isn't any white on them. I do run a skimmer. None of the pumps are rusting. Whatever seems to be affecting my corals is also affecting my fish as they have recently contracted internal parasites and ich, which was being managed perfectly fine before. I tried testing for any stray voltages but I only have about 3 volts overall in the system. I still haven't tested my ORP, but I don't suspect that to be an issue.

Do you guys have any ideas as to why this is happening?

cdness · Jun 22, 2015

This is where I was about a year ago... Unexplained issues honestly are the worst to troubleshoot...

The residual issue with Chloramines is ammonia. A well cycled tank will be able to process this without issues.

Can you describe what you mean by "downhill"? Is it just the fish showing signs of stress?

Have you added anything recently like Fish, Coral or Live Rock?

Check if there are any environmental changes... Any new air freshener or cleaner used recently? Did you have anyone over to spray the yard with fertilizer or insecticide?

What are you using for flow? What about lights?

13jake · Jun 22, 2015

Only thing I could think is check salinity with a different device, sometimes they can get off and they can read way off.

Oceansize · Jun 22, 2015

I don't have as much experience as you, but your alk seems way low and therefore it's no surprise to see your pH also too low and unstable. You say that wasn't a problem before, but perhaps it was just a matter of time? From what I understand, Alk should never be lower than 8. If it is maintained betwen 8 and 12, then pH should stabilize at 8.3 or 8.4.

maxxin69 · Jun 22, 2015

cdness said:
This is where I was about a year ago... Unexplained issues honestly are the worst to troubleshoot...

The residual issue with Chloramines is ammonia. A well cycled tank will be able to process this without issues.

Can you describe what you mean by "downhill"? Is it just the fish showing signs of stress?

Have you added anything recently like Fish, Coral or Live Rock?

Check if there are any environmental changes... Any new air freshener or cleaner used recently? Did you have anyone over to spray the yard with fertilizer or insecticide?

What are you using for flow? What about lights?

The lights I am using is Pacific Sun Pandora S2, and for flow I have a return pump that is going at about 2000gph and a gyre at about 70% is a 120. We haven't been using any sort of insecticides nor air fresheners, no new livestock or rocks, I have added new corals but they were all dipped and scrubbed.

By downhill I mean that fish are certainly stressed, some lps corals are dying (namely my plate) and almost all of my sps are dying (with the exception of a few acros)

maxxin69 · Jun 22, 2015

13jake said:
Only thing I could think is check salinity with a different device, sometimes they can get off and they can read way off.

I recalibrated my milwalkee digital refractometer with both their standard and my own RO/DI and it checked out. Salinity isn't the issue either.

maxxin69 · Jun 22, 2015

Oceansize said:
I don't have as much experience as you, but your alk seems way low and therefore it's no surprise to see your pH also too low and unstable. You say that wasn't a problem before, but perhaps it was just a matter of time? From what I understand, Alk should never be lower than 8. If it is maintained betwen 8 and 12, then pH should stabilize at 8.3 or 8.4.

A range of acceptable pH is hard to determine, but usually a pH of anywhere from 7.6 to 8.6 is widely acceptable. Plus the alk of the ocean is about the same, so I should be fine. Plus like I said, they had be doing great beforehand with the same alkalinity. Although I can try raising it if no other ideas come up.

Oceansize · Jun 22, 2015

I defer to your greater experience, it just seems to me that I everything I read says keep pH at 8.3 or 8.4, and more importantly, to keep it stable. Since you are having pH swings at night, that is why I'm guessing your Alk may be too low to keep pH stable.

toothman · Jun 22, 2015

Stability is the key. pH naturally drops at night when lights are out and at 7.8-8 that shouldn't cause a problem.

Oceansize · Jun 22, 2015

If the tank is about a year old, then perhaps sulfate buildup in the substrate?

cdness · Jun 22, 2015

First, never calibrate a refractometer with RODI, always use the standard...

Second, it's not the pH swing as mine swings way more than that each day due to CO2 content of the air. My alk is at 9 - 10 so stable alk does not always mean stable pH.

Increasing Alk will not hurt you so giving that a shot won't be an issue, however low alk will not stress out the fish.

pciscott · Jun 22, 2015

Do you run any type of carbon dosing or Biopellets? What is your Nitrate?

Irsug1 · Jun 22, 2015

Foreign Material in tank? I have seen numerous posts about this or that was dropped in the tank by children or unknown sources.

maxxin69 · Jun 22, 2015

cdness said:
First, never calibrate a refractometer with RODI, always use the standard...

Second, it's not the pH swing as mine swings way more than that each day due to CO2 content of the air. My alk is at 9 - 10 so stable alk does not always mean stable pH.

Increasing Alk will not hurt you so giving that a shot won't be an issue, however low alk will not stress out the fish.

The digital refractometer uses RO/DI to calibrate and then a second fluid that is at 1.025 to check for accuracy. And it's right on the money.

brandon429 · Jun 22, 2015

Need full tank pics we catch details off those that can help. A few simple changes might become apparent off good detail pics

maxxin69 · Jun 22, 2015

pciscott said:
Do you run any type of carbon dosing or Biopellets? What is your Nitrate?

No carbon dosing. The nitrate level is 5ppm.

maxxin69 · Jun 22, 2015

Irsug1 said:
Foreign Material in tank? I have seen numerous posts about this or that was dropped in the tank by children or unknown sources.

I looked and didn't see anything, although I could always look again.

rlman41299 · Jun 22, 2015

Your Ph and alk seems fine. I ran my Alk at 5.7-6 dkh for I run a low nutrient system. Any higher and my acros shows signs of stress.
I have had an unsolved mystery also at one point but I have figured it out. Do you run a canopy? How are your metal parts inside the canopy?
I used to have a canopy in my tank and the metals/brackets/screws we used in there rusted and the salt creep that accumulates in them falls back into the tank. That's what happened to me and as soon as we figure that out, after a few weeks tank started to rebound. No more canopies for me.

maxxin69 · Jun 22, 2015

rlman41299 said:
Your Ph and alk seems fine. I ran my Alk at 5.7-6 dkh for I run a low nutrient system. Any higher and my acros shows signs of stress.
I have had an unsolved mystery also at one point but I have figured it out. Do you run a canopy? How are your metal parts inside the canopy?
I used to have a canopy in my tank and the metals/brackets/screws we used in there rusted and the salt creep that accumulates in them falls back into the tank. That's what happened to me and as soon as we figure that out, after a few weeks tank started to rebound. No more canopies for me.

No canopy. I do have a jump screen made out of aluminum but there isn't any rusting.