natural seawater and sand

[Mikemack]

Hi guys im pretty new here and still trying to study up on as much as I can before I take the plunge and start my marine system.
I was recently told by my lfs that if i wanted i could just use natural seawater now I live right on the sea so this would be extremely handy however it is scotland and the it may seem stupid ask but wouldnt there be a difference in the nutrients and bacteria in my water here compared to that in hotter climates where these fish originate ? Also if you can just take seawater can you go one step further and pick up your own sand off the beach or will that not work ? Thanks guys

 

[tyler1503]

Hi guys im pretty new here and still trying to study up on as much as I can before I take the plunge and start my marine system.
I was recently told by my lfs that if i wanted i could just use natural seawater now I live right on the sea so this would be extremely handy however it is scotland and the it may seem stupid ask but wouldnt there be a difference in the nutrients and bacteria in my water here compared to that in hotter climates where these fish originate ? Also if you can just take seawater can you go one step further and pick up your own sand off the beach or will that not work ? Thanks guys

I use beach sand and will be using ocean water to fill my 120.
The biggest issue is when you have corals who need a lot cal, alk and mag, you may have to test these things on EVERY batch of ocean water and dose accordingly. Just make sure you get it if it hadn't rained in the last week or so, I know that'll be hard in Scotland lol. Rain washes nasty fertilisers and insecticides etc into the water. Plus if you collect it from the beach there will be a lot of gross stuff you can't see in it. So it's best to collect from out from the shore from deeper water if possible.
Beach sand is ok as long as you wash it and wash it and wash it again. When you think you've washed it enough, wash it once more. There's a lot of crap in beach sand you again can't see, but once it's washed well, it's fine. Also most beach sand it really fine, so power heads will blow it around a bit
If you can get around these obstacles, you'll do just fine

 

[backpack]

Getting things from the ocean may lead to you introducing pests to your system. A lot of people are
using dry sand,dry rock, and synthetic salt so they dont have hitchhikers. If you decide to use sea water
a uv filter would be beneficial.

 

[Lesley]

hi, I have a 260 gallon mixed reef about 12 months old. We have been using Red Sea Coral Pro for the last 12 months and decided to bite the bullet last week and do a natural sea water change.
I was really nervous about doing it. After heating the water and doing all parameter tests it came up almost perfect. Cal was the only thing a little low, which I dosed for prior to putting into the tank. Mag, alk and salinity were all spot on. Tank & corals are looking amazing and we will def. do it again. We intend to only keep the artificial salt for times we cant collect.
We were advised to collect at high tide, as far out as possible (we used a long jetty) and put it through a filter sock. Only thing I wasnt aware of and learnt was that our water temp at collections was 18.5 and salinity came up at 1.032. After heating to 25.5 salinity was 1.029. apparently heating decreases the density and can change the salinity considerably. So do no parameter test until you water is up to temp.
I just added some RODI water to get salinity to 1.026 (thats what our tank is at) .

P.S - we are from a cold (not tropical) area and it is fine.

 

[Mikemack]

Wow thats a bonnie tank.
Thats how I want mine to look.
I was going to go for a 220 gallon but it would work out to be 7ft long so i have decided to gor a 180 instead works out at 5ft l x 3ft w x 2.5ft h

 

[Lesley]

Wow thats a bonnie tank.
Thats how I want mine to look.
I was going to go for a 220 gallon but it would work out to be 7ft long so i have decided to gor a 180 instead works out at 5ft l x 3ft w x 2.5ft h

Well thank you. The best advice I ever received was research everything, i mean absolutely everything. DONT always trust you local LFS they will often tell you anything to sell you something. Read forums like this, ask questions and take it slowly. The only dumb question is the one you don't ask.
Good luck it is worth all the work in the end. Our tank is 7ft x 3 x 2.5.. In Australia we talk liters. It is 1000 liter display with a 200 liter sump

 

[Mikemack]

Yeah we prefer to talk litres over here too
But i just use gallons for ease for everyone else and thats some set up.

Heres another one the manufacturers of the tank im after tend to put the return pipe and over flow pipe in the same partition would it not make more sense to have two partitions at either end one for overflow and one for the return ? (The manufacturers will do this if I ask) but im only going to do it if its actually beneficial

 

[Lesley]

Yeah we prefer to talk litres over here too
But i just use gallons for ease for everyone else and thats some set up.

Heres another one the manufacturers of the tank im after tend to put the return pipe and over flow pipe in the same partition would it not make more sense to have two partitions at either end one for overflow and one for the return ? (The manufacturers will do this if I ask) but im only going to do it if its actually beneficial

That is so stupid. The idea of the sump is to let the so called dirty water enter, pass through skimmer flow over the sandbed, chateau through the rocks (critters eat the crap left over) then cleaned water returns to the tank. How can that happen if return pipe is in the same compartment as the overflow pipe. I would def have overflow in left chamber and return in right chamber. Get as bigger overflow box as possible. The more top water you take out the more stable the tank. We bought this tank second hand, it was 6 months old. Everyone told us that our tank would crash because it would recycle and rock and sand would die off in the 7 hours move. We only had 2 fish and 3 corals when we bought it and we had no crash, not even a movement in parameter readings. We believe it was the amazing set up and the full length overflow that saved us.

 

[tyler1503]

Yeah we prefer to talk litres over here too
But i just use gallons for ease for everyone else and thats some set up.

Heres another one the manufacturers of the tank im after tend to put the return pipe and over flow pipe in the same partition would it not make more sense to have two partitions at either end one for overflow and one for the return ? (The manufacturers will do this if I ask) but im only going to do it if its actually beneficial

Is there a wall down the middle (from left to right) separating the return and drain? So even though they're both on the far left, they're still In different chambers. If so, this design can work well.
I don't know how they could design a sump with them both in the one chamber that works half decently.

 

[Mikemack]

No its not in the sump there both in the same partition its in the main tank itself

 

[Lesley]

No its not in the sump there both in the same partition its in the main tank itself

Oh, i get what you mean now. Still stupid. lol
I have the full lenght internal overflow that the water goes down to the sump through 2 down pipes (one left one right) and one in the middle that is just an emergency downpipe if tank overfills for some reason or one of the other downpipes gets blocked.
Then water goes through the sump and pumped back up one pipe that splits into 2 at the back of the tank and returns to the tank on the top left & right sides. This creates some circulation as well.
If you look carefully at the photo you will see the 2 return pipes either side of the overflow at the back of the tank. (the overflow box has some coroline algae on it) The line of coroline algae along the back is the bottom of the full length overflow that is inside the tank.

 

[tyler1503]

Haha I got confused too.
It's not too much of an issue because it's an all in one tank (tank + filtration). It would be best if they were on opposite sides of the chamber because then water will actually flow through any media or algae or whatever you may end up putting in there. If they're at the same end the water may just trickle over it and not do a great job. It will still work, but nowhere near as effective.

 

[PatW]

Sand, most people like using aragonite sand. This sand is calcium carbonate. It originates from coral skeletons. Sand is pretty much a one time expense, so I prefer to go with a known entity. I have known people who have just gone to a beach and used that sand. It worked for them. But it seems to me to be a crap shoot. You don't know what the sand is made of. You don't know what critters are in it. You don't know if it has industrial or agricultural pollutants in it. So you spend a pot load of cash on your reef tank and then go and save a little on some sand you just grab on a beach.

I feel a bit the same about salt water. It seems that going out and lugging up a few thousand liters would be rather strenuous and inconvenient. It could be polluted. But mainly, it just seems easier to dump some instant ocean into some RODI water. As for parameters, unless you are dealing with an estuary or river mouth, sea water around the world is pretty similar. Many large public aquariums use sea water if they are in a coastal area. If you are worried about introducing critters, running the water through a filter would remove almost everything.