Need advice and direction

[Wojtek]

Hello all,

I currently have a 9 month old 90 gallon and 36-gallon sump reef tank that I am kind of stuck and need a little direction. I am not sure if I need to make any changes or just continue to be patient, but it seems that the tank is maturing very slowly and I feel that something is off.

The tank was started with dry sand, dry rock, and I am using Red Sea blue bucket salt. The problem that I am having is that my LPS like GSP, Zoas, Kenya tree, duncans are growing ok, but I would say on the slower side. I will kill any acros, acans, or montis in a matter of 2-3 weeks. The pollip extention seems to deminish and then they bleach and die. Same type of coral has been placed at different levels in the tank but they all behave the same and seem to die rather quickly. Can someone take a look at my water perimeters, my stability, and give me any advice why any SPS is quickly killed in my tank. The one thing that I dont have at the moment are my par numbers but the lights are 2 XR30 G6 Radions on a AB+ with an intensity of 35% at a BRS recommended height. I am also attaching my recent ICP results for my RODI and tank water.

Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 8 ppm stable - red sea test kit
Phosphate - .05 Hanna and red sea confirm
Salinity - 35 - Trident, Milwaukee tester, agree see attached
PH - 8.3 to 8.5 swing daily see attached see attached for stability
Alk - 8.5 - Red Sea, and Trident confirm - see attached for stability
Cal - 440 Red Sea and Trident confirm - see attached for stability
MaG - 1250 Red Sea and Trident confirm - see attached for stability

If someone has the time to please look at all of this and tell me what I need to do, it would be really appreciated. Also, if I am missing some important info please just let me know.

Thanks in advance,
Wojtek

 

[blaxsun]

Your parameters all look fine (you could raise magnesium up to 1300-1350ppm though), so I'd look at lighting and flow. A PAR meter is pretty much the only way to determine if you have enough light reaching the corals you're concerned with. As for flow, what are you running for wavemakers? What all do you have stocked for fish and cleanup crew?

 

[Wojtek]

Your parameters all look fine (you could raise magnesium up to 1300-1350ppm though), so I'd look at lighting and flow. A PAR meter is pretty much the only way to determine if you have enough light reaching the corals you're concerned with. As for flow, what are you running for wavemakers? What all do you have stocked for fish and cleanup crew?

Flow - 2 MP40 on each side off set a little running Reefcrest at 40%
Fish - 2 clowns, 1 4 inch foxface, 1 2 inch hippo, 4 cardinals, and 1 flame.
Clean up crew consists of 3 turbos, 10 blue hermit crabs, and 1 sea urchin

 

[blaxsun]

Flow - 2 MP40 on each side off set a little running Reefcrest at 40%
Fish - 2 clowns, 1 4 inch foxface, 1 2 inch hippo, 4 cardinals, and 1 flame.
Clean up crew consists of 3 turbos, 10 blue hermit crabs, and 1 sea urchin

I think your flow is probably more than sufficient, so I'd look at lighting/PAR.

 

[Lavey29]

There are some areas of concern on your ICP. Calcium is low and some key trace elements are low also. I also wonder about your par. I run my XR15s at 70% intensity and my tank is 22 inches deep.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I can't comment on why you're having difficulty, but do want to advise you about the kind of coral you have. This will help in the future if you need to refer to a certain group that you have questions about.
Of the coral you listed:
SPS- Acro and Monti
LPS- duncans, acan
Soft coral- zoas, GSP, Kenya tree.

I hope you are able to figure out what's going on. It is sometimes harder to keep all three types in the same tank than to hone your parameters for just one or 2.

 

[Cell]

Full tank shot please

 

[Dkmoo]

a full "mixed reef" with SPS/LPS/Softies is going to be challenging esp for a new tank and for less experienced reefers. - the light/flow requirements are just wayy too wide and you really have to think very hard with the aquascape and flow to make sure you have enough high flow/low flow areas and high par/shade/cave areas. acros need 300+Par, many softies/lps get burned at 100+par. just placing them in different heights in your tank is not going to be enough of a difference to get them in the right par/flow range. for ex - in my mixed reef, my acros are placed towards the top with 300 - 500 Par, my bottom of tank is still 100-150 par. so i have to put my softies literally in caves or vertically sides of rocks, and under my LPS/SPS colonies shadows, where even the indirect light that was bouncing off of the internal glass surface was plenty of light for the softies.

get a par meter to confirm. i suspect light is one of your issues.

flow is another variable - acros need very very high flow, yet many lps/softies like low flow. esp if you have wavemakers on both sides, i doubt you have enough "low flow" areas for the them. For ex, my acan garden (low-medium light, low flow) i literally have to put them on the farthest side from my wavemaker (i put them mostly on 1 side) and even put rocks around it to create a "flow shield" alcove.

 

[Wojtek]

Full tank shot please

 

[Wojtek]

Two different settinga

 

[Dkmoo]

Two different settinga

from the picture - i can certainly see that the points i mentioned from my first post above are part of the issue - the NSA scape looks cool but i don't see enough "low flow" areas that some of your low flow lps/softies need. Also don't have enough shades/caves for when you dial the xr30s high enough for the acros you won't have enough low-light areas for the softies.

also the rocks stil look very white - they should really all at least turn into a deep shade of green or some purple before you really start adding corals. It's not just about keeping those 8 parameters stable, what it needs is a biological stability from having a diverse microfauna to help make it more mature. considering you started with dry rock and dry sand, i wouldn't be surprised that it'll take you 1 year to 18 months before it matures. As a point of reference - people that start with live sand and live rock still take between 6 - 12 months before the tank matures.

the back of your overflow - that looks like dead coralline? that's another sign that you don't have biological stability/diversity in addition to potential light issue.

id suggest if you have access to a local reef club to scoop a few cup of sand from a reefer with a mature tank, or add a piece of live gulf rock, to help seed your tank with more biodiversity.

 

[Wojtek]

Two different

Two different settinga

 

[Wojtek]

from the picture - i can certainly see that the points i mentioned from my first post above are part of the issue - the NSA scape looks cool but i don't see enough "low flow" areas that some of your low flow lps/softies need. Also don't have enough shades/caves for when you dial the xr30s high enough for the acros you won't have enough low-light areas for the softies.

also the rocks stil look very white - they should really all at least turn into a deep shade of green or some purple before you really start adding corals. It's not just about keeping those 8 parameters stable, what it needs is a biological stability from having a diverse microfauna to help make it more mature. considering you started with dry rock and dry sand, i wouldn't be surprised that it'll take you 1 year to 18 months before it matures. As a point of reference - people that start with live sand and live rock still take between 6 - 12 months before the tank matures.

the back of your overflow - that looks like dead coralline? that's another sign that you don't have biological stability/diversity in addition to potential light issue.

id suggest if you have access to a local reef club to scoop a few cup of sand from a reefer with a mature tank, or add a piece of live gulf rock, to help seed your tank with more biodiversity.

I really appreciate your reply and it makes sense. I’m getting a few spots of new coreline but it’s minimal. So basically what you’re saying is to stay patient. I think if I would do this again it would be live rock and live sand ,but I followed BRS videos and started clean

 

[Dkmoo]

I really appreciate your reply and it makes sense. I’m getting a few spots of new coreline but it’s minimal. So basically what you’re saying is to stay patient. I think if I would do this again it would be live rock and live sand ,but I followed BRS videos and started clean

you can still add liverock/live sand now to help seed and speed up the process.

 

[Wojtek]

you can still add liverock/live sand now to help seed and speed up the process.

I thought about that but I’m worried about the die off, raising ammonia and killing all the fish.

 

[Jedi1199]

I really appreciate your reply and it makes sense. I’m getting a few spots of new coreline but it’s minimal. So basically what you’re saying is to stay patient. I think if I would do this again it would be live rock and live sand ,but I followed BRS videos and started clean

I believe you are well on your way. As stated above, I also believe you issue is with lighting more than any parameter issues. Many soft corals will thrive anywhere in a tank, some others might be a bit more demanding. Lps corals do well in moderate light with fair flow.

I am wondering why you are having issues with acans to be honest. I have found them to be almost bombproof in my tanks. Perhaps I am lucky, but I can drop an acan anywhere in my tank and it will thrive.

For Montis, I place them near the top of the tank in a high light and flow area. That said, I killed a few of them when my tank was in the first year. Once I hit the 11 month mark or so, I was able to keep them alive with no issues.

So to answer your direct question, your parameters are fine. Your lighting and flow may be an issue and your tank just might not be quite ready for SPS at this point.

Start with easier SPS like plating Monti's, Birdsnest, and maybe a Bubblegum Digitata then give it some time.

 

[Dkmoo]

I thought about that but I’m worried about the die off, raising ammonia and killing all the fish.

just get a small amount - point is not for it to have a noticeable immediate impact of any kind, but just to seed and introduce some diversity. that first amphipod egg or new strand of beneficial bacteria has to come from some where.

there are also products that algae barn sells that's marketed as "adding biodiversity" tho i never tried them so can't speak to their effectiveness.

 

[Wojtek]

just get a small amount - point is not for it to have a noticeable immediate impact of any kind, but just to seed and introduce some diversity. that first amphipod egg or new strand of beneficial bacteria has to come from some where.

there are also products that algae barn sells that's marketed as "adding biodiversity" tho i never tried them so can't speak to their effectiveness.

Im over here like this

 

[Wojtek]

just get a small amount - point is not for it to have a noticeable immediate impact of any kind, but just to seed and introduce some diversity. that first amphipod egg or new strand of beneficial bacteria has to come from some where.

there are also products that algae barn sells that's marketed as "adding biodiversity" tho i never tried them so can't speak to their effectiveness.

I do have critters in the sump, not sure if they are amphipods but I have ton living in the fuge.

 

[Jedi1199]

One other thing I will add here... You could probably add 6 more small fish. I don't have any science to back this up, but I have observed in my own 55g tank that a heavy fish load did wonders for overall tank stability.

That said, I also had a LOT more rock in my tank than you have. Probably 80 pounds of rock in a 55g tank.

Lots of hidey holes for fish. Lots of rock to block strong flow areas. Lots of rock for the bacteria to grow on. I believe that this, plus the very heavy bio-load, is the reason I haven't really ever had any nuisance algae issues with my tank other than a short lived bryopsis bloom at about month 6 or 7.