Need advice from experienced clam keepers

lakereef · Sep 15, 2016

I've had this clam for a few months. It's always looked a little off and wondering if this is pinched mantle. I haven't had good luck with freshwater dips in the past so apprehensive about trying.

Looking for advice

Water prams are all fine.

Robink · Sep 15, 2016

No, expert but is it getting enough light? And they require magnesium. What's your mag level?
Also, if someone's nipping at it, it will close up also. Had a hippo tang was biting the mantle on mine.

steve&mari · Sep 15, 2016

You need to clean edge of the shell the couple things I see could bother it enough to retract. Longer like it is harder for it to survive. What lights are it under. List parameters also it does help. Look for snails such as pyramid snails. Is it's foot ok ?

lakereef · Sep 15, 2016

Mag levels are 1300. I don't think it's parameter related as I'm using the same water from my sps display that's growing lots of coral fine.

Nitrates are 10ppm
phosphates .1ppm
Alk 8.5
Calcium 420
Temp 77-82

I have three other clams that are looking great but one other that may also have slight pinched mantle.

Light is primarily sun with Kessils for 8 hours at 40%. They are not light starved, if anything they're acclimating to the increased lights from t5s in quarantine.

lakereef · Sep 15, 2016

Oh and no nipping as this tank doesn't have fish.

reefwiser · Sep 16, 2016

Are you trying to use LED's in a clam tank [emoji47] If you want a clam in your tank to live you will need MH. I seen this happen so many times over the years. Clams need the full spectrum that MH provide. Otherwise they die.

lakereef · Sep 16, 2016

reefwiser said:
Are you trying to use LED's in a clam tank [emoji47] If you want a clam in your tank to live you will need MH. I seen this happen so many times over the years. Clams need the full spectrum that MH provide. Otherwise they die.

That's an interesting theory. What spectrum is the metal halide providing to a clam that an LED lacks? Do you believe this is needed for photosynthesis of the zooxanthellae of a clam but not for coral? I've been growing sps under LEDs for years and they seem to do fine. Do you feel this lack of spectrum is making this one clam look different than the other 4 clams I have in the same tank under the same lights?

Evan West · Sep 16, 2016

reefwiser said:
Are you trying to use LED's in a clam tank [emoji47] If you want a clam in your tank to live you will need MH. I seen this happen so many times over the years. Clams need the full spectrum that MH provide. Otherwise they die.

Im no clam guy so im seeking from observation here but with all due respect I think that is a bit excessive, ive seen a lot of healthy clams under LED online and my LFS has several healthy growing clams in a display under LED. Im not saying MH arent better in some ways but I find it hard to believe that you NEED them to grow clams. As I said im no clam guy but I know ive seen healthy clams under LED.

Darryl · Sep 16, 2016

Ik from my observation i would clean the mantle area and look for snails at the same time .
Looks like an irratation problem it is not a light problem also ty sitting him up and check flow too much or not enough can do the same

DeniseAndy · Sep 16, 2016

Okay, have you freshwater dipped this clam? Sounds like you did in the past with some. I would do that as the pinched mantle looks pretty distinct. Also, clean the worm off the shell, check for snails, check the foot. I have found it very hard (so far impossible IME) to get a clam to recover if it is damaged. Good luck!

reefwiser · Sep 16, 2016

You can do anything you want. [emoji3] I have tried all the LED's and MH beats them all. The problem is that MH has a very even spectrum across the whole area of a tank. When you use LED's the spectrum is not mixed. Clams live in a very high light area of the reef. They get hit with a wide spectrum of light. I would never use a LFS as a source of what light works for anything they just don't keep corals for 15 to 20 years.

Here is an example of a clam that started at 4 inches and has been grown under MH.

An old friend of mine Tullio Dellaquila
Of http://www.reefbrite.com/ who has written many scientific papers on lighting. Could explain it fully to you. This past MACNA Tullio and I spent many hours talking about LED's and MH. As I started keeping SPS in 1990 and have had great success with them. Until I bought several different LED lighting systems.
I just visit aquarist tanks all over the country in my travels to MACNA's since 1991. I learn from others.

drernesto · Sep 16, 2016

Check for pyramid snails, enough light, fish that might nip (cleaner wrasse, copperband...) are you dosing some trace elements do you spot feed?

revhtree · Sep 16, 2016

reefwiser said:
Are you trying to use LED's in a clam tank [emoji47] If you want a clam in your tank to live you will need MH. I seen this happen so many times over the years. Clams need the full spectrum that MH provide. Otherwise they die.

This is an interesting statement. Can you create a new thread about it so we can discuss?

hart24601 · Sep 16, 2016

I have had many clams grow under LED. I had a 12" derasa for 6 years under led that grew from 2" to 12" under LED the entire time. I have had maximas (teardrops too), crocea, hippo, squammys all grow and do great under LED. Not just live, but actively grow.

If you like MH that is great, but we don't need misinformation spreading around.

lakereef · Sep 16, 2016

hart24601 said:
I have had many clams grow under LED. I had a 12" derasa for 6 years under led that grew from 2" to 12" under LED the entire time. I have had maximas (teardrops too), crocea, hippo, squammys all grow and do great under LED. Not just live, but actively grow.

If you like MH that is great, but we don't need misinformation spreading around.

Thank you, I appreciate your post especially since you have so many different clams in your care. Would you do anything for this clam or just wait and watch?

Tahoe61 · Sep 16, 2016

That looks like a bad case of PMD to me, it looks too advanced.

I would try changing out charcoal and see if that helps.

A FW bath at this point could really do no harm. Match temp and pH and leave the clam in there for 10-15 minutes.

Exact causes and treatments for PMD are disputed. Both the addition of fresh charcoal and FW baths have been effective for me. I know the argument for charcoal causing or exacerbating PMD but I have not seen this to be the case.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/jf/index.php

The argument for LED's not providing adequate or correct spectrum for clams is easily disputed by all those LED users keeping clams successfully under LED's, my self included.

Good luck.

hart24601 · Sep 16, 2016

I would clean off the shell at least and inspect it. Does the edge show any growth? That is really important to be objective with that and look for real growth since you have had it. Clams don't really show much decline or sickness until they die, but stop growing. It's very possible it wasn't in good shape when you got it and is now on its last legs, so to speak.

IME it will die as is since it's been going downhill anyway so a FW wouldn't hurt, but I fear it might be a goner, keep us updated!

Not much is known about clam issues and disease compared with fish. I never really did much to qt clams, but I had one I did a short qt with and it introduced a mystery disease and killed the other clams - not PM or anything like that, but I tried everything to stop it and nothing worked. This was a long time ago, but now if I add any new clams they get qt until I see new growth and am 100% sure they are growing.

EDIT: looking more at the pic that doesn't look like PM to me personally, and I don't see growth. I think the poor guy has just been going downhill. Do the other clams in there have nice fresh growth on the shells?

reefwiser · Sep 16, 2016

hart24601 said:
I have had many clams grow under LED. I had a 12" derasa for 6 years under led that grew from 2" to 12" under LED the entire time. I have had maximas (teardrops too), crocea, hippo, squammys all grow and do great under LED. Not just live, but actively grow.

If you like MH that is great, but we don't need misinformation spreading around.

Not misinformation just a different view point. I like LED's just not for Clam's. As I said earlier keep clams how ever you want having visited hundreds of tanks around the world now I have found clams and LED's do not make a happy pair.

Darth George · Sep 16, 2016

hart24601 said:
I have had many clams grow under LED. I had a 12" derasa for 6 years under led that grew from 2" to 12" under LED the entire time. I have had maximas (teardrops too), crocea, hippo, squammys all grow and do great under LED. Not just live, but actively grow.

If you like MH that is great, but we don't need misinformation spreading around.

Yup. I grow clams under a kessil and it does great. It's full spectrum.

hart24601 · Sep 16, 2016

reefwiser said:
Not misinformation just a different view point. I like LED's just not for Clam's. As I said earlier keep clams how ever you want having visited hundreds of tanks around the world now I have found clams and LED's do not make a happy pair.

I respect that there are many ways to keep a healthy and happy tank, and much of it is personal preference. But saying-

"Clams need the full spectrum that MH provide. Otherwise they die."

That is misinformation. It's just not true. Heck I had clams under blue/white only LEDs for at least 3 years as have many others. Someone reading that will think clams can't live under LEDs, while that may be your experience there are many, many other keeping clams under LEDs for years and years now. If that statement is true everyone that has kept clams under LEDs are lying about it?