need advice on dialing in the overflow

[Lonny]

I have an internal overflow box with 1 1/2"drains and a 1000gph sicce return pump in the sump. My problem is finding that sweet spot where the drain or the pump isn't sucking air. The pump is a little small for a 130gl tank, would stepping up to a 1500gph pump make finding the sweet spot easier?

 

[GatorGuys]

I typically get the pump set where I want (where it is not sucking your sump dry) first. Then, I use screens and fleece to 'quiet' the overflow box. It will always suck air (you want the pump to be the limiting factor so you don't overflow your tank if you get something to clog your overflow) - but there are ways to make it a little quieter.

 

[ReeferBob]

If you aren't at a full siphon style drain (bean/herbie) then you just need to put a valve on your return flow and dial back the flow until the flushing stops. If you are full siphon you need to have an open channel drain to catch a little of the overflow of the full siphon to balance the system.

 

[beaslbob]

I'm having trouble understanding exactly what your problem is.

The overflow should be able to keep up easily with whatever is being pumped back from the sump.

With the power off the tank should drain to some level and stop.

When the power returns things should go back to normal.

If the drain fails (break syphon of blockage) the sump should suck air before the display floods.

The "sweet spot" should be at any amount of water pumped back.

Perhaps you could expand on what the problems are?

 

[Lonny]

It's a bean animal set up. Three drains one with gate valve to for full siphon. It's a very fine line between opening the gate valve to much and sucking air or closing it to much and the return pump sucks air. I had it dead silent at one point so of course I messed with and it's been a pain to get it balanced out again. This is my first reef tank no inhabitants yet, and I'm curious if they are just finicky or is my pump to small for the 1 1/2"drains? Hope this makes more sense, like I said I'm very new to this so is hard for me to explain.

I'm having trouble understanding exactly what your problem is.

The overflow should be able to keep up easily with whatever is being pumped back from the sump.

With the power off the tank should drain to some level and stop.

When the power returns things should go back to normal.

If the drain fails (break syphon of blockage) the sump should suck air before the display floods.

The "sweet spot" should be at any amount of water pumped back.

Perhaps you could expand on what the problems are?

 

[Lonny]

Here's the set up

 

[beaslbob]

What the h***?
Do the drains enter the tank at the middle?
If so that is the problem. they need to enter at the top.
So when water flows above the drains it starts flowing to the sump and the water never goes above the drain.

if they do enter below the water line you need to run pipes up to the surface.

But it's kinda hard to see for sure.

 

[beaslbob]

It's a bean animal set up. Three drains one with gate valve to for full siphon. It's a very fine line between opening the gate valve to much and sucking air or closing it to much and the return pump sucks air. I had it dead silent at one point so of course I messed with and it's been a pain to get it balanced out again. This is my first reef tank no inhabitants yet, and I'm curious if they are just finicky or is my pump to small for the 1 1/2"drains? Hope this makes more sense, like I said I'm very new to this so is hard for me to explain.

doesn't look like a bean animal to me.

 

[Lonny]

Than it probably isn't. I thought that's what it was.

doesn't look like a bean animal to me.

 

[Lonny]

There is an internal weir

What the h***?
Do the drains enter the tank at the middle?
If so that is the problem. they need to enter at the top.
So when water flows above the drains it starts flowing to the sump and the water never goes above the drain.

if they do enter below the water line you need to run pipes up to the surface.

But it's kinda hard to see for sure.

 

[beaslbob]

thanks' for the picture. It does help clear it up.

I presume the bulkheads go into the weir.

If the weir is not leaking you should be able to just run three pipes with no valves and it should operate. But perhaps a bit noisy in the process.

What plumbing do you have on the outside box? dursos? just u's for full siphon. open emergency?

 

[beaslbob]

also is the center hole blocked off by the webs on either side?

 

[ReeferBob]

What? 2 full siphons? If that is correct, that is your problem. Bean is one full siphon and one open channel which just has a trickle of water. The other drain is totally dry. The one with the gate valve is for the full siphon. The valve is for tuning the drain so that just a trickle goes down the open channel. The goal is not to get as much water as possible flowing through your sump. Bean is just about the easiest drain to get tuned and running properly.

Yeah - also you need to put 3 standpipes in the external overflow compartment. One with a 180 degree curved top (full siphon), one just like that but a little higher with a hold drilled and the tube coming out of that hole near the water level so if it rises, it will cover the tube and create an full siphon (open channel), and one with just an open top (emergency).

Here is mine (before I put the cap and tube on the center drain).

 

[Lonny]

One open emergency and two u's one with a hole drilled in the top of the elbow and a ball valve the other without a hole drilled in it and a gate valve. There are two, two inch bulkheads connecting the weir to the box on the back

 

[beaslbob]

what happens when you open the ball valve all the way?

 

[beaslbob]

better yet do you have a picture of it running. I am interesting where on the weir teeth the water level is.

 

[beaslbob]

I presume you have tried cleaning the u tube air hole of salt creep.

 

[Lonny]

I've never shut it. My wife just got home and texted that it's running quite again so I don't know, must of got lucky. It's not the end off the world but you all remember when you started in the hobby, mole hills become mountains pretty easy. At least I'm that way when I don't understand why something's happening

What? 2 full siphons? If that is correct, that is your problem. Bean is one full siphon and one open channel which just has a trickle of water. The other drain is totally dry. The one with the gate valve is for the full siphon. The valve is for tuning the drain so that just a trickle goes down the open channel. The goal is not to get as much water as possible flowing through your sump. Bean is just about the easiest drain to get tuned and running properly.

maybe that's the problem all the water is

what happens when you open the ball valve all the way?

 

[Lonny]

When I get home I can post a pic. No salt yet it's only been running for two days now

better yet do you have a picture of it running. I am interesting where on the weir teeth the water level is.

 

[beaslbob]

You see you come here and get all this "expert" advice especially mine (well for the quotes anyway).

And what happens.

With all the worry, kabitzing, stupid jokes, looking at dark pictures and everything.

it just starts working when the wife is present.



At least now the wife will think she got it working.

which is a big thing in my house.