Need advice !! Ready to give up

[Saltyreef]

Yes she is !

Don’t like that idea one bit

Me either. Start with the copper test kit and see what your free concentration is showing. Then remove the carbon and test again in 24 hours. It will tell you and us a lot. You may need to run something like cuprisorb if the carbon doesnt keep the amount in the water down. Also what brand of carbon did you buy? Believe it or not some brands 100x more absorbant than others. I use Acurel extreme carbon pellets as they have seemed to remove a lot more junk faster and last a lot longer than the other brands ive purchased in the past.

 

[James M]

Me either. Start with the copper test kit and see what your free concentration is showing. Then remove the carbon and test again in 24 hours. It will tell you and us a lot. You may need to run something like cuprisorb if the carbon doesnt keep the amount in the water down. Also what brand of carbon did you buy? Believe it or not some brands 100x more absorbant than others. I use Acurel extreme carbon pellets as they have seemed to remove a lot more junk faster and last a lot longer than the other brands ive purchased in the past.

I bought marineland carbon...not home at the moment so will do that later

 

[Captain Quint]

Oh I haven’t been home since Friday morning...I’m guessing it looks the same as Thursday.
Assuming I have copper in my tank wouldn’t all the inverts/coral die instantly because there intolerant of copper ?

Yes, sir assuming copper to be in the tank would be toxic to invertebrates such as snails, crabs, shrimp, etcetera but oddly enough some small amounts of copper have small traces of it in NSW. With that said if there was/is perhaps it is nearly untraceable.

On a different but similar note, I have a friend who treated tanks with Cu and had inverts live through it. Snails are sensitive as are most corals. If it had Cu perhaps it is working its way out of the system or becoming bound to the sand. The Cu levels would need to be kept at .015 to be effective at killing 'marine Ich' so their level of Cu had to be low enough to still be in the system but not high enough to kill the invert?

When I ask him to explain what he followed through with he told me did some large water changes and added Cuprisorb and that he had inverts without any issue, including snails and corals. I'm still not so sure of this.

I know Copper and Cupramine and not like apples to apples but both are pretty harsh even to some species of fishes.

Are you showing any trace that you can tell of copper?

 

[Katrina71]

I am not. I was busy fragging you some aiptasia

 

[James M]

Yes, sir assuming copper to be in the tank would be toxic to invertebrates such as snails, crabs, shrimp, etcetera but oddly enough some small amounts of copper have small traces of it in NSW. With that said if there was/is perhaps it is nearly untraceable.

On a different but similar note, I have a friend who treated tanks with Cu and had inverts live through it. Snails are sensitive as are most corals. If it had Cu perhaps it is working its way out of the system or becoming bound to the sand. The Cu levels would need to be kept at .015 to be effective at killing 'marine Ich' so their level of Cu had to be low enough to still be in the system but not high enough to kill the invert?

When I ask him to explain what he followed through with he told me did some large water changes and added Cuprisorb and that he had inverts without any issue, including snails and corals. I'm still not so sure of this.

I know Copper and Cupramine and not like apples to apples but both are pretty harsh even to some species of fishes.

Are you showing any trace that you can tell of copper?

So he doesed copper in his tank and has no losses ? That doesn’t sound right. My tap water has Copper that’s at 1.3mg/L.

I am not. I was busy fragging you some aiptasia

Aiptasia is fun

 

[Saltyreef]

So he doesed copper in his tank and has no losses ? That doesn’t sound right. My tap water has Copper that’s at 1.3mg/L.

Aiptasia is fun

Was the tank set up with self mixed water using the treated tapwater?
Or just topped off? Also has this been since day one?

 

[James M]

Was the tank set up with self mixed water using the treated tapwater?
Or just topped off? Also has this been since day one?

I’ve been using self mixed treated tap water since my first tank, which was a 10 gallon set up for a year. I then upgraded to a 20. Also topped on with treated tap

 

[Saltyreef]

I’ve been using self mixed treated tap water since my first tank, which was a 10 gallon set up for a year. I then upgraded to a 20. Also topped on with treated tap

Same rock and sand? Judt moved into a larger tank? How long has the 20 been online?

 

[James M]

Same rock and sand? Judt moved into a larger tank? How long has the 20 been online?

Just kept the rocks. I had a 20 high for 4 months and then got a nuvo 20 that’s been up for 2 months. So technically 6 months in a 20 gallon.

 

[Saltyreef]

Just kept the rocks. I had a 20 high for 4 months and then got a nuvo 20 that’s been up for 2 months. So technically 6 months in a 20 gallon.

Ok. And the nuvo is an AIO tank correct?
So have your LFS test, magnesium, alk, calcium, no2 and po4, salinity and ph for a general idea if the parameters we like to see to troubleshoot issues.
Pick up a salifert copper test kit for 15 bux.
Test your water as it is now with the carbon running and then again 24 hours after removing it. That will give us a better idea of what may be going on in your tank.
Get back to us on the parameters.

You already made the right choice to switch to filtered water as your top off source.

Start here and get back to us on your parameters.

Nano aquariums are sensitive but I started out on a 14gal biocube and have ample experience with a small reef. Believe it or not my 14 gallon was dialed in better than my 40 is now!!

 

[James M]

Ok. And the nuvo is an AIO tank correct?
So have your LFS test, magnesium, alk, calcium, no2 and po4, salinity and ph for a general idea if the parameters we like to see to troubleshoot issues.
Pick up a salifert copper test kit for 15 bux.
Test your water as it is now with the carbon running and then again 24 hours after removing it. That will give us a better idea of what may be going on in your tank.
Get back to us on the parameters.

You already made the right choice to switch to filtered water as your top off source.

Start here and get back to us on your parameters.

Nano aquariums are sensitive but I started out on a 14gal biocube and have ample experience with a small reef. Believe it or not my 14 gallon was dialed in better than my 40 is now!!

Yes its a AIO

 

[ZaneTer]

This is for the majority of sps and a few lps....i dont see the OP having anything near what requires a little phosphate in the water.
Personally ive followed this fundimental rule of keeping my waste and toxins CLOSE to zero and it does far less damage to my livestock than slightly elevated. Everyones going to think their way is better but im just giving advice for what has worked for me. You shouldnt be scared to use GFO to quickly take care of a phosphate problem. They find their way back into the tank quite easy through many sources so a removal of a decently elevated level should be dealt with accordingly.
If his phosphate was down below .10 i wouldnt be pushing the fact but as coral continues to receed, the parameters are only pointing at a few things left.
His system is not dialed in nor stocked to worry about STN on any of his livestock at this point...

I seem to have struck a nerve with you although that wasn’t my intention. You did however repeatedly mention that OP should drop his PO4 to ZERO. Zero is NOT 0.1 or 0.05 or 0.03.
To clarify zero = 0.

Only now have you decided to backtrack on your reckless advice and instead aim for a good number of less than 0.1, which by my calculations only requires a water change of roughly 6g taking into account sand and rock displacement for water and the internal volume of his tank.

Absolutely agree. But to quote a post and then say how you disagree 100% with me and splurge your crap like your the king of reefing? Not being defensive just pointing out something that clearly does nobody any good....but youll have your opinions too.

I will continue to stand by disagreeing with that particular post and hey if you want to label me king of reefing, go right ahead
The advice I gave to the OP was to proceed with utmost caution if he were to follow your advice. I think you were reckless to tell a newcomer to aim for zero nutrients. Their reasonable assumption based on your statement would be to aim for 0.00 PO4 and 0.00 NO3.

Point me to a single study where PO4 kills corals, please I beg of you.

You go on to state that he shouldn’t worry about STN because his system isn’t dialed in yet? What does that have to do with anything??? We should all be worried about STN no matter the dialed in state of our tanks. OP has come to this forum because he is concerned for the state of his livestock. As a responsible owner STN is something to worry about and not recklessly introduce.

@James M
Do you have an ICP test on the go yet? If you have some spare cash and the thought of metals is worrying you then maybe consider something like metasorb. It will absorb a few metals, not just copper. Of course until we get an ICP analysis we are kind of guessing.

When doing water changes to lower concentrations of certain elements you should measure the inside of your aquarium and take into account the volume displacement of rocks/sand/coral. Alternatively put everything in a bucket then measure the water you have left. This will serve you greatly later if you decide to dose anything.

Most people will say they have a 20g tank and dose accordingly but most likely you only really have 12-14g. If you go down the route of Lcl or KNO3 then you would be heavily overdosing your tank without realising.

“Nothing good happens quickly in this game”

 

[James M]

I seem to have struck a nerve with you although that wasn’t my intention. You did however repeatedly mention that OP should drop his PO4 to ZERO. Zero is NOT 0.1 or 0.05 or 0.03.
To clarify zero = 0.

Only now have you decided to backtrack on your reckless advice and instead aim for a good number of less than 0.1, which by my calculations only requires a water change of roughly 6g taking into account sand and rock displacement for water and the internal volume of his tank.



I will continue to stand by disagreeing with that particular post and hey if you want to label me king of reefing, go right ahead
The advice I gave to the OP was to proceed with utmost caution if he were to follow your advice. I think you were reckless to tell a newcomer to aim for zero nutrients. Their reasonable assumption based on your statement would be to aim for 0.00 PO4 and 0.00 NO3.

Point me to a single study where PO4 kills corals, please I beg of you.

You go on to state that he shouldn’t worry about STN because his system isn’t dialed in yet? What does that have to do with anything??? We should all be worried about STN no matter the dialed in state of our tanks. OP has come to this forum because he is concerned for the state of his livestock. As a responsible owner STN is something to worry about and not recklessly introduce.

@James M
Do you have an ICP test on the go yet? If you have some spare cash and the thought of metals is worrying you then maybe consider something like metasorb. It will absorb a few metals, not just copper. Of course until we get an ICP analysis we are kind of guessing.

When doing water changes to lower concentrations of certain elements you should measure the inside of your aquarium and take into account the volume displacement of rocks/sand/coral. Alternatively put everything in a bucket then measure the water you have left. This will serve you greatly later if you decide to dose anything.

Most people will say they have a 20g tank and dose accordingly but most likely you only really have 12-14g. If you go down the route of Lcl or KNO3 then you would be heavily overdosing your tank without realising.

“Nothing good happens quickly in this game”

That’s why I originally said we are steering away form the main problem. Don’t know why phosphate would be my main concern.

I haven’t got home yet and probably be delayed till tomorrow. I will go and pick up a copper test kit on my way home.

 

[DSC reef]

That’s why I originally said we are steering away form the main problem. Don’t know why phosphate would be my main concern.

I haven’t got home yet and probably be delayed till tomorrow. I will go and pick up a copper test kit on my way home.

Just take your time James, we are all here to help and want you to succeed my friend. One of the many exciting things to reefing is learning new things.

 

[ZaneTer]

It might be a good idea to get a few spare ICP tests for later in case you come across an issue further down the line. I like to keep two on hand in case I run into mysterious trouble.


I apologise for detailing your thread.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

To clarify zero = 0.

0.?

0.000000000000000000000000000001 ?

 

[kp1991]

That might be the issue. "Treated" tap water generally means it's been de-chlorinated. But it still contains heavy metals and other nutrients including ammonia and nitrate. If inverts are turning up missing I'm thinking copper might be on the rise as corals and inverts cannot tolerate copper. If you go to your city's website you can usually bring up a water quality report and see what's all in it. Check it out and see what the heavy metals content is.

Yah you really gotta be carefull with tap water

 

[kp1991]

So your ATO failed & no fresh top off water was being added. So the only effect of this would be a rise in salinity. Is this what you are suggesting is the cause of the problem?

Could be what happens is the fresh water molecules will evaporate and the sodium chloride will not resulting in a spike in your specific gravity high sg will kill best to check

 

[kp1991]

Some test kits will show inacurate for nitrates you may have too much nutrients in your 20g which is very very easy to do in a nano too much nitrates equals dead coral and inverts

 

[Scrubber_steve]

Could be what happens is the fresh water molecules will evaporate and the sodium chloride will not resulting in a spike in your specific gravity high sg will kill best to check

That's what I said