Need coral help

[briancarterkc]

I have been struggling with this for awhile
Water top off is my RO/DI unit. Output reads zero
I have some zoa's and mushrooms. They seem fine, except for one candy apple red frag of zoas. They are only half open.
I run ROWAPHOS and Chemipure
Fish seem 100% fine
I dose NOPX daily, Fuel once a week. Red Sea coral colors once a week. I stopped all dosing, but my phosphates started getting high a month or so ago, so I started back with the NOPX.

Could it be temperature related? My return pump went (DC12000) so the only pump I could be was a SICCE 5.0 which seems to produce more heat. My temperature probe is in the return pump section in my sump. Should I move it?

I have also been getting zero growth. I was for awhile, then when this problem started everything seemed to just stop. For example, my rasta zoa's went from one or two to 7 in 2 months, since then (6 months ago) nothing.

Couple thoughts...

1. It wouldn't hurt to check the temp in your DT. ideally several times over 24 hours and see if you have swings happening. The average temp itself is less concerning (unless way out of line) as much as if you have big swings. Generally, though, you want your temp probe to be where your heaters are. If your return pump failed while you were not home you could really overheat your sump and potentially blow out the heaters. All that said, if you have good flow to the DT the temp there and in the sump is probably the same.

2...when you say your pump "went"...what happened? Any chance that it melted down or cracked and leached any chemicals, oils, or copper into your tank? Did the decline seem to coincide with the pump death?

3. When did you stop all the other dosing? Is it just the NOPX you're dosing now, or still the other stuff? If not, I'd probably stop that stuff until you figure this out just to eliminate variables.

 

[Breakthecycle2]

Couple thoughts...

1. It wouldn't hurt to check the temp in your DT. ideally several times over 24 hours and see if you have swings happening. The average temp itself is less concerning (unless way out of line) as much as if you have big swings. Generally, though, you want your temp probe to be where your heaters are. If your return pump failed while you were not home you could really overheat your sump and potentially blow out the heaters. All that said, if you have good flow to the DT the temp there and in the sump is probably the same.

2...when you say your pump "went"...what happened? Any chance that it melted down or cracked and leached any chemicals, oils, or copper into your tank? Did the decline seem to coincide with the pump death?

3. When did you stop all the other dosing? Is it just the NOPX you're dosing now, or still the other stuff? If not, I'd probably stop that stuff until you figure this out just to eliminate variables.

1. The funny thing is, my heater has not gone on all winter. My temp in the tank ranges from 75-79. The sump feels warmer then the DT for some reason.

2. The controller just died. I couldnt get it to work with any other power supply. To my knowledge, nothing leaked. I just double checked. I still have it in a bucket.

3. I stopped maybe 6 weeks ago. I started dosing again two weeks ago, but only once or twice a week. I just went back to daily dosing.

 

[briancarterkc]

1. The funny thing is, my heater has not gone on all winter. My temp in the tank ranges from 75-79. The sump feels warmer then the DT for some reason.

2. The controller just died. I couldnt get it to work with any other power supply. To my knowledge, nothing leaked. I just double checked. I still have it in a bucket.

3. I stopped maybe 6 weeks ago. I started dosing again two weeks ago, but only once or twice a week. I just went back to daily dosing.

1. Probably just because it's a closed environment and probably ambient temp inside your cabinet is warmer. You should definitely validate that with a thermometer tho.
2. Probably fine then.
3. I assume the issue hasn't changed for better or worse across that time? Did you do much water change after you stopped dosing for that 4 week period? Assume you mean you stopped dosing everything, right? NOPOX can be OD'd in a tank and will cause sadness.

 

[Breakthecycle2]

1. Probably just because it's a closed environment and probably ambient temp inside your cabinet is warmer. You should definitely validate that with a thermometer tho.
2. Probably fine then.
3. I assume the issue hasn't changed for better or worse across that time? Did you do much water change after you stopped dosing for that 4 week period? Assume you mean you stopped dosing everything, right? NOPOX can be OD'd in a tank and will cause sadness.

I do weekly 15-25 gallon water changes. When I stopped dosing, it was everything.

 

[briancarterkc]

The ph theory someone else posted is an interesting one to pursue. Only other thought I can think of is to get some polyfilter in and see if it changes color to indicate a metal in the tank. I assume the temp thing isn't a thing (you'll validate that), your params are generally ok (could be tightened up as people have said, but everything looks in the range of able to rule out as the issue), that it's LPS and SPS means it's not likely to be some kind of pest, your chemipure should rule out chemical warfare, your RODI seems pure, your fish being happy means we should be able to rule out the typical red herring of electric current leakage. So, if it's not temp, ph, or metal, you've stumped this chump.

 

[Breakthecycle2]

The ph theory someone else posted is an interesting one to pursue. Only other thought I can think of is to get some polyfilter in and see if it changes color to indicate a metal in the tank. I assume the temp thing isn't a thing (you'll validate that), your params are generally ok (could be tightened up as people have said, but everything looks in the range of able to rule out as the issue), that it's LPS and SPS means it's not likely to be some kind of pest, your chemipure should rule out chemical warfare, your RODI seems pure, your fish being happy means we should be able to rule out the typical red herring of electric current leakage. So, if it's not temp, ph, or metal, you've stumped this chump.

Would a 2-3 temp swing cause this?

 

[briancarterkc]

I mean...3 degree swing isn't great, but I'd be surprised if it caused all this madness. I'd more expect that to just cause slow growth. But temp swing isn't in my wheelhouse...since the room my tank is in is fairly cool, my heaters are always on and generally keep the tank within 1 degree.

 

[Breakthecycle2]

I mean...3 degree swing isn't great, but I'd be surprised if it caused all this madness. I'd more expect that to just cause slow growth. But temp swing isn't in my wheelhouse...since the room my tank is in is fairly cool, my heaters are always on and generally keep the tank within 1 degree.

I have my heater on my APEX, set to go on at 74, off at 76. It hasn't gone on at all.

 

[briancarterkc]

I just processed the temp you're running at. I'd probably bump that up to 78. Again, probably not related, but 76 seems a little cool to me. That'll also cause the heater to run and keep more stable.

 

[briancarterkc]

For the record, I run at 80.

 

[briancarterkc]

The temp thing is feeling weird to me after thinking about it for a couple more minutes. Do you have a thermometer you can use to check temp in the DT and sump?

 

[Diesel]

My bet is the NoPox you're dosing.
I have seen several tanks crashed or the same results after a few dosing's as your tank.
Will see if I can find these threads.


[HASHTAG]#reefsquad[/HASHTAG]

 

[briancarterkc]

My bet is the NoPox you're dosing.
I have seen several tanks crashed or the same results after a few dosing's as your tank.
Will see if I can find these threads.


[HASHTAG]#reefsquad[/HASHTAG]

I had that thought too but if nothing got better in six weeks with decent water changes....I wouldn't expect a dramatic overnight turnaround but at least not a continued degradation.

 

[Diesel]

What I don't understand is that we measure high nutrients and we do all to reduce it but then again we dose and yet again stop one day on the other.

I run ROWAPHOS and Chemipure
I dose NOPX daily, Fuel once a week. Red Sea coral colors once a week. I stopped all dosing, but my phosphates started getting high a month or so ago, so I started back with the NOPX.

This raises a red flag to me.
Corals don't like fast changes.
When I was still dosing nutrients for corals and running reactors to reduce for what was to much I told myself one day after all these years............... !!!STOP!!!
I'm going to find the balance between fish poop and the amount of nutrients my corals need and rely completely on the old school reefer method........ but that's me.

 

[Breakthecycle2]

So what are your suggestions?

 

[briancarterkc]

So what are your suggestions?

Were you able to verify DT and sump temperatures with a thermometer that isn't your Apex probe?

 

[Breakthecycle2]

Were you able to verify DT and sump temperatures with a thermometer that isn't your Apex probe?

No. I'll have to get a drip in thermometer tomorrow.

 

[briancarterkc]

No. I'll have to get a drip in thermometer tomorrow.

If you have a digital human thermometer (i.e. The kind you use when you think you have a fever) you might be able to use that. Some have ranges low enough to work.

 

[briancarterkc]

What I don't understand is that we measure high nutrients and we do all to reduce it but then again we dose and yet again stop one day on the other.



This raises a red flag to me.
Corals don't like fast changes.
When I was still dosing nutrients for corals and running reactors to reduce for what was to much I told myself one day after all these years............... !!!STOP!!!
I'm going to find the balance between fish poop and the amount of nutrients my corals need and rely completely on the old school reefer method........ but that's me.

I don't disagree with not fast-stopping/starting stuff. But nothing OP was dosing is heroin-like. Should be able to stop all that cold turkey okay.

 

[Diesel]

In some case you can in other case you'll be surprised what a slight change can do as many tanks are on the edge.
Even with a small set back you can see chances in the overall look from your coral.
Try to find out where your spike from nutrients come from and take action from there.
Not knowing is like stick a bucket under the leak of your roof as your carpet won't get wet any more but it won't fix the problem.