Need guidance getting params in check

[Wagonpitt]

trying to get this tank in order. Been doing alot of water changes and manual removal of hair algae and mostly gone. Up until now i didnt see a point in testing because my issues were obvious. Just got nitrate and alk checkers today and phos reagents. Havnt been testing anything for a while until today. Just nopox and lots of water changes. Temp and ph i monitor on controller recently calibrated ph.

total volume ~120gallon
temp ~78f
ph ~7.8
alk 8.8-8.9 hanna dkh
nitrate 0.0-0.7 hanna hr
phos over .63ppm (over 200ppb on hanna ulr)
calc and magnesium not testing yet
refugium with cheato. 20hr light

obviously nitrate and phos are way out of balance and id prefer ph 8+
goal is to lower phos to .1ppm or less, raise nitrate ~10ppm, raise ph 8+

im dosing 10ml/day nopox for a couple months now to help with nutrients and hair algae and just started 10ml/day all for reef within the last week. All for reef is less then 1/3 of recomended dose and plan on keepin it there untill i see need to raise it. dont have a large amount of coral and mostly smaller frags. Water changes work for now for alk calc mag. I do like tanks ive seen using all for reef and its easy so ill up that dose when i need it.

i feed ALOT: daily mix of LRS reef frenzy, spirulina brine, selcon, reef roids, nori on the clip. Side of pellets or flake every couple days. thats obviously my phos issue. id rather increase output then decrease input of phos. I have gfo and will start to run it. Was hoping cheato and nopox were taking care of it but i was wrong.

im really surprised at my 0 nitrate i almost dont believe it and will get water tested some where else just to see if they can measure any nitrate. I just got the checker today.

i need to raise my nitrates if i confirm its really that low. Im thinking cut nopox to 5ml but i dont want to completely stop carbon dosing because i want the bacteria benefits. Also thinking cut refugium light from 20hr to 16hr. other methods to raise Nitrate ? dont change filter sock as often—>Nitrate factory? Nitrate dosing? Rather not have to dose nitrate if i can avoid it.

also need to lower phos I have gfo and i know that works but dont want to have to rely on it long term. Once i get under .1ppm What other options is there to keep it steady. Ive read a little about brightwell phosphate E just dont know enough and no personal experience.

not sure what to do about ph. Summer time i keep windows open and house stays more ventilated. Right now Its hard. would rather try something simple then co2 scrubber

thats basically what i planned on doing and some explanation. just want someone with more experience to tell me if im on right track or if im wrong what i should do different. thanks for any input.

 

[welsher7]

How old is your tank? How large and frequent of a water change are you doing? If you have excess algae you could be getting a false low reading on your nitrate because it is being used by algae. if you don't have excess algae it could be what you are feeding that is driving the higher phosphates. And if the water changes you are doing aren't working to drop your phosphates I would cut back feeding on the reef roids and nori. If i remember correctly both reef roids and dried nori are high in phosphates. You may have to use some GFO to bring your phosphates back in line to start. Then with feeding less your regular water changes might handle the nitrates and phosphates.

I'll let someone else chime in on the Ph, but I'd focus on nitrate and phosphate first. Once those are in line then look at Ph. Ph is hot topic right now......

 

[Wagonpitt]

Tank is running approx 5 1/2 yrs.
waterchanges is basically 44gal brute spread out over 2 weeks. Sometimes just 5 gal and vacum sump detritus. Sometimes 20-30gal from dt and manually removing algae. No schedule just whenever i have a few min i do what i can.

ive heard the same about reef roids, but didnt know about nori. I feed 1/2 to 1 sheet per day to my one tang but clown cardinals and wrasse pick on it aswell. Also ive read about the false reading of phosphate because of algae soaking it up but didnt know about nitrate. my cheato is growing. I do have some hair algae still but its dieing off, less dense and siphons off rock pretty easy. I would have assumed id get a low phos reading if that was the case as ive been through that but again i havnt read about false nitrate readings so ill look into that aswell. i know i feed alot and probably over feeding im not sure.

Ideally id like to keep feeding the same but increase phos export therefore lowering phos. And figure out whats going on with my nitrate.

ph im not too concerned about yet just next thing on the list to work towards. I agree phos and nitrate first though.

pic is about 3 days worth of food minus selcon reef roids nori. reef roids i dont use every time but 3 days on 3 days off. 1 purple tang and 13 small/medium size fish. Clowns anthias wrasses etc i dont know if thats too much or too little. Fish dont complain

i keep the fish well fed and most are 4+ yrs old so im happy about that. I do have easier corals that have lasted through everything with me but generally dont have long term success with alot of corals for more then a yr or so. Thats what im trying to get better at.

plan for the next fews days and weeks is
1. Lower refugium light period
2. Lower nopox from 10ml to 5ml
3. Run cup of gfo
4. Test atleast every 3 day until i get numbers in right direction.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

With no significant nitrate, I'd either stop the NOPOX (best choice), dose nitrate (second choice) or feed more (3rd choice due to phosphate additions).

GFO addition is fine. Go slow.

I wouldn't alter the refugium.

 

[welsher7]

With no significant nitrate, I'd either stop the NOPOX (best choice), dose nitrate (second choice) or feed more (3rd choice due to phosphate additions).

GFO addition is fine. Go slow.

I wouldn't alter the refugium.

There you go.... The king has spoken

 

[Wagonpitt]

I guess nori is high in phos and some brands more so. i read a thread on rc where someone did some tests on it. i put it on the clip and after a while it disintegrates and i figure its ok it will feed other things. wont be doing that anymore so thanks for that tip. Rather remove and replace if i think fish need more. Reefroids once a week only from now on. still feeding same frozen and pellet. need to figure out a balance between feeding and params because thats obviously my phos problem. i dont want to rely on gfo to manage it forever.

i did a small wc and started gfo Stopped nopox

nitrates still reading 0 on hanna high range but might take couple more days for it to build up a little. Id like to maintain 5-10ppm
i expect nitrate to build up if not i might have to dose it. Id like to raise nitrate and keep dosing atleast some nopox for bacteria benefits.
Skimmer and refugium still running

working towards phos anything .1ppm or lower
phosphate now at 103ppb or .316ppm still high but dropped 50% in 2 days so hopefully not going to fast.
once phos comes down i want to get off gfo see if i can keep it stable. if not id rather start dosing phos remover then keep using gfo long term. Easier to set up a doser then change gfo reactors. Hopefully can be avoided with less reefroids and better nori practice.

wondering if flow rate matters in reactor when it comes to po4 removal rate. I know gfo has to tumble.
i can raise flow and it tumbles more
i can lower flow and it still tumbles but less.
With higher flow can i assume more po4 is being removed faster because of more water/gfo contact. ? Just wondering if its dropping to fast and if i should lower flow.

 

[Wagonpitt]

Tropic Marin Plus-NP, why combining N+P+Carbon in the same bottle?

There is no possible product that can be added to an aquarium to boost pH that is not also an alkalinity supplement. You can remove CO2 to raise pH (fresher air in the room, CO2 scrubber, more photosynthesis, etc.) or you can use an alkalinity supplement with a high boost to pH (carbonate) or a...

www.reef2reef.com

@Randy Holmes-Farley Sorry to bring up an old thread but i saw your posts in it a few times. im more searching ways to add nitrate.

some parts that i think relate to my situation so am i coming to a correct conclusion from this thread? Im not using either product mentioned but i was carbon dosing nopox So kind of same.

0 nitrate makes it harder for coral to uptake phosphate. If i raise nitrate it makes phos easier to be used by corals. therefore helping to reduce phos.

Amino acids like redsea ab+ or other brand will help to increase nitrates not phosphate. So instead of dosing something like esv nitrate i can dose some sort of amino acids instead which will feed corals and raise nitrate and help to lower phosphate long term.

So
less phos input by cutting down feeding nori/reefroids. + minor carbon dose(nopox) + small amino acids dose
=potentially put me in a range i want to be in. Not sure if i understand but if im right then i can potentialy maintain params and provide more to corals (amino acids).

just thinking ahead incase i have to dose nitrate
And trying to figure a easy way to help keep phos down without gfo long term.

or better question.
If less reefroids/nori isnt lowering phos enough AND you dont want to reduce frozen AND you dont want to run gfo long term. How would you manage phos if you were in the same situation.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

wondering if flow rate matters in reactor when it comes to po4 removal rate. I know gfo has to tumble.
i can raise flow and it tumbles more
i can lower flow and it still tumbles but less.
With higher flow can i assume more po4 is being removed faster because of more water/gfo contact. ? Just wondering if its dropping to fast and if i should lower flow.

It matters to the extent that you ant flow to bring in phosphate to be bound, and you do not want to break up the media. More flow is better as long as the media is not getting broken apart, and there are no channels forming through it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

0 nitrate makes it harder for coral to uptake phosphate. If i raise nitrate it makes phos easier to be used by corals. therefore helping to reduce phos.

Just to be clear how it works, it doesn't make it easier to take it up, it is providing something that is needed to grow, and growth is what consumes N and P.

Amino dosing will have similar effects to dosing nitrate for many organisms, and might even be more beneficial for some. But bacteria will consume it readily, whereas not so much nitrate (unless organic carbon dosing).

I used many different methods simultaneously to control N and P; macroalgae, organic carbon dosing (vinegar), skimming, GAC, and GFO.

 

[markwayts]

trying to get this tank in order. Been doing alot of water changes and manual removal of hair algae and mostly gone. Up until now i didnt see a point in testing because my issues were obvious. Just got nitrate and alk checkers today and phos reagents. Havnt been testing anything for a while until today. Just nopox and lots of water changes. Temp and ph i monitor on controller recently calibrated ph.

total volume ~120gallon
temp ~78f
ph ~7.8
alk 8.8-8.9 hanna dkh
nitrate 0.0-0.7 hanna hr
phos over .63ppm (over 200ppb on hanna ulr)
calc and magnesium not testing yet
refugium with cheato. 20hr light

obviously nitrate and phos are way out of balance and id prefer ph 8+
goal is to lower phos to .1ppm or less, raise nitrate ~10ppm, raise ph 8+

im dosing 10ml/day nopox for a couple months now to help with nutrients and hair algae and just started 10ml/day all for reef within the last week. All for reef is less then 1/3 of recomended dose and plan on keepin it there untill i see need to raise it. dont have a large amount of coral and mostly smaller frags. Water changes work for now for alk calc mag. I do like tanks ive seen using all for reef and its easy so ill up that dose when i need it.

i feed ALOT: daily mix of LRS reef frenzy, spirulina brine, selcon, reef roids, nori on the clip. Side of pellets or flake every couple days. thats obviously my phos issue. id rather increase output then decrease input of phos. I have gfo and will start to run it. Was hoping cheato and nopox were taking care of it but i was wrong.

im really surprised at my 0 nitrate i almost dont believe it and will get water tested some where else just to see if they can measure any nitrate. I just got the checker today.

i need to raise my nitrates if i confirm its really that low. Im thinking cut nopox to 5ml but i dont want to completely stop carbon dosing because i want the bacteria benefits. Also thinking cut refugium light from 20hr to 16hr. other methods to raise Nitrate ? dont change filter sock as often—>Nitrate factory? Nitrate dosing? Rather not have to dose nitrate if i can avoid it.

also need to lower phos I have gfo and i know that works but dont want to have to rely on it long term. Once i get under .1ppm What other options is there to keep it steady. Ive read a little about brightwell phosphate E just dont know enough and no personal experience.

not sure what to do about ph. Summer time i keep windows open and house stays more ventilated. Right now Its hard. would rather try something simple then co2 scrubber

thats basically what i planned on doing and some explanation. just want someone with more experience to tell me if im on right track or if im wrong what i should do different. thanks for any input.

Your nitrates are fine. Use the gfo to get phosphates down and the hair algae will start to almost fall off the rock when you tug on it. I'd stop using all for reef and use kalk to push Ph up. Just dose the k and a trace minerals from tropic marin if you need trace elements for acro color. If not don't worry about it for now.

 

[Wagonpitt]

Stopped nopox, been running gfo.

phos 0.14 Still working on it but going slow.
nitrate 5.5 im happy
alk 11.2.
calc 480-500
have been dosing all for reef. Went from 10ml to 25ml over couple weeks but ive cut that down to 15ml/day to get alk down


id like to switch from all for reef to saturated kalk. Im using a doser.

first because my system can still be maintained with kalk alone
and second because i want the ph boost. When kalk is no longer enough for my tank ill dose kalk and all for reef. I have noticed better growth and colour with all for reef compared to just water changes. Ive researched so much I feel like i could tell someone how to dose kalk but i dont feel comfortable doing it myself for some reason. so if you guys can walk me through it a bit please.

im having hard time figuring out equivalent of 15ml all for reef to amount of kalk so im kind of just winging it.

i put 2.5 teaspoon in 1gal container and mixed it up. That should give me full saturation and little sediment at the bottom

tube 2 inch from bottom of container to not pull sediment

doser pulls from kalk container and output is above display tank near wavemaker

i set doser to 36ml per day
dosing 24 times per day
1.5ml per hour

im assuming this is going to do nothing for my tank because i see people dosing gallons per day but i dont know what to start with. going to test daily to see where alk and calc are. And raise dose from there.

id appreciate any input

 

[Wagonpitt]

Being very extra but why not.

i figure that should be a good place to dose but would it effect the monti about 12 inch away from where kalk drips

 

[Wagonpitt]

definetly not totm candidate. just to give an idea of amount of coral using alk/calc. Besides 2 rock flower anemones the orange yuma mushrooms and the kenya tree all coral were added within last 4 months or so. Besides purple tang all fish with me 3-6 years so atleast thats kinda good

 

[Wagonpitt]

High tech dosing container