Need help dealing with NITRATES

[sde1500]

I do a 10% water change weekly on each of my tanks and add a dose of bottled bacteria with each change to offset the loss of nitrifying bacteria.

This may be the cause of your problem. You may be reducing your bacteria colony faster than it can grow back.

While it certainly doesn't hurt to add more bacteria, the bacteria colonize the rocks and sand. Water changes would have a negligible affect on the bacteria population.

I would agree stop trying to feed the clean up crew. You literally defeat the purpose of them if you don't make them clean up waste. They eat algae, poop, food bits that fall to the sand etc. Target feeding them just makes them bad at their job. Why are you trying to get nitrates lower? Are you having problems with algae, or corals not doing well? Or are you just chasing numbers? 20ppm is far from a worrisome number.

 

[Dom]

While it certainly doesn't hurt to add more bacteria, the bacteria colonize the rocks and sand.Water changes would have a negligible affect on the bacteria population.

Good point.

 

[Joshua Agostoni]

While it certainly doesn't hurt to add more bacteria, the bacteria colonize the rocks and sand. Water changes would have a negligible affect on the bacteria population.

I would agree stop trying to feed the clean up crew. You literally defeat the purpose of them if you don't make them clean up waste. They eat algae, poop, food bits that fall to the sand etc. Target feeding them just makes them bad at their job. Why are you trying to get nitrates lower? Are you having problems with algae, or corals not doing well? Or are you just chasing numbers? 20ppm is far from a worrisome number.

I'm chasing 0ppm that the ultimate goal as I think it is for everyone but it's mainly because I was told that over 40ppm my fish can die..

Also I'm not target feeding the inverts I just was adding a bit extra to make sure they get enough to eat.

 

[Brew12]

I'm chasing 0ppm that the ultimate goal as I think it is for everyone but it's mainly because I was told that over 40ppm my fish can die..

Also I'm not target feeding the inverts I just was adding a bit extra to make sure they get enough to eat.

I'm going to recommend you read this article. It discusses the chemistry parameters of some "Masters" in the hobby. You will find that they try to maintain anywhere from 5ppm -40ppm.
https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/tank-parameters-of-some-masters.263/

As for fish.... PaulB has his nitrates up around 160ppm right now and his fish are doing just fine.

 

[Dom]

I'm chasing 0ppm that the ultimate goal as I think it is for everyone but it's mainly because I was told that over 40ppm my fish can die..

Ah... Soooooo important to vet your sources of information.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, there is a LFS that has a thriving tank with Nitrates of 160+ in my area.

 

[MaiReef]

My tank never does well when there is 0 Nitrates. 5-10 is a better goal. Though 20 is fine. Check your phosphates. That is something to worry about a bit more.

 

[acro-ed]

Nitrates at 20 ppm are ok for fish. Most inverts would be fine. I think many soft and LPS corals would be fine. Sps corals would have problems.

I have an SPS tank that runs at 25ppm nitrate. A reading in this range is NOT a problem. A reading of 0ppm will yield pale SPS (unless the tank is lower light, and then the growth is slower) that are at greater risk of necrosis if a problem occurs. Higher nutrients and denser zoox yields more robust Acropora. It often also yields more colorful Acropora.

I agree with other comments that too much nutrient can lead to browning (which means the zoox is too dense), but a brown Acro has a greater chance of surviving a parameter swing than a very pale one. Thus, it should be encouraged to err on the side of slightly too much nutrient rather than too little. This is, of course, only my opinion, but anecdotally over many years I believe this wholly.

The nutrient "level" you should want to maintain is going to relate to your lighting and Alk. There is no "pre-determined" bright-line as to where you cross over from pale-colorful-brown. IMO a "safe" range to experiment within would be 2-20ppm but trying to achieve 0 is inadvisable, and deliberately holding it higher should be done only when you are confident you know what you're doing. There are very successful SPS tanks running even higher Nitrate than mine, and there are tanks running successfully "barely" over 0; don't let someone else's numbers dictate what you should "want" to achieve, only YOUR tank can tell you that.

Hope this helps,
Ed

 

[Joshua Agostoni]

I don't have corals guys.. mainly because I'm still newer to the hobby and can't afford the lighting or all the other chem dosing they require. I'm waiting to get a bigger tank for all that.. I was just told by my local fish store it a best to have them read zero but im gonna read the article posted thanks. And I'm making a refugium and bio pellet reactor so well go from there.

 

[acro-ed]

You are doing the right thing by learning and questioning things. It is quite typical to start with fish and then move to coral later. I just don't want to see any inaccurate information presented to inexperienced people, even if you aren't worried about coral yet. The balance between nitrates-light-alkalinity holds true for any saltwater tank, but is certainly of greater concern when you have corals that are consuming the alk. Don't worry about this yet, just try to keep the parameters as stable as possible. I can assure you, though, that my fish and inverts are happy and healthy at similar nitrate levels as yours.

Oftentimes nitrates climb from unconsumed food and/or too little biological filtration (live rock). Adding inverts can help, and having a refugium or chaeto reactor can keep nutrient consumption stable long-term. Feeding less food more frequently can also help. Best wishes for your tank!

Thanks,
Ed

 

[Brew12]

I don't have corals guys.. mainly because I'm still newer to the hobby and can't afford the lighting or all the other chem dosing they require. I'm waiting to get a bigger tank for all that.. I was just told by my local fish store it a best to have them read zero but im gonna read the article posted thanks. And I'm making a refugium and bio pellet reactor so well go from there.

Without coral there is little reason to worry about nitrates unless you are battling algae. It is very good practice to try and maintain them now though, so you are ready for when you do add coral.

 

[ihavecrabs]

I was just told by my local fish store it a best to have them read zero but im gonna read the article posted thanks. And I'm making a refugium and bio pellet reactor so well go from there.

That's because they want to sell you stuff to get it to zero.. don't worry about it. I know quite a few successful reef tanks running nitrates that high so there are zero concerns for a fish only tank.

If you did anything, an algae scrubber or reactor would be the easiest to implement and maintain with running costs being quite minimal.

Again, in your case I'd not change a thing. Keep your fish fed well [emoji4]

 

[sde1500]

I'm chasing 0ppm that the ultimate goal as I think it is for everyone but it's mainly because I was told that over 40ppm my fish can die..

Also I'm not target feeding the inverts I just was adding a bit extra to make sure they get enough to eat.

And this is why I ask "why" to a lot of questions lol. You can go over 100ppm without killing fish, easily. For a while yea, the goal with corals was 0, but as many others have said here, it is starting to change. People realize a little nutrients is good.

 

[mcarroll]

I'm chasing 0ppm that the ultimate goal as I think it is for everyone

You are not alone in that thinking, but I wish I could tell where that thought is originating!

Just to pile on the info:
A Nitrate Dosing Calculator For Better Tank Health (And Better Coral Color!)

If you want, take a look at these too:
Nitrogen cycling in corals: the key to understanding holobiont functioning?
Impacts of nutrient enrichment on coral reefs: new perspectives and implications for coastal management and reef survival

Lots more in the Coral section.

 

[Dom]

I don't have corals guys.. mainly because I'm still newer to the hobby and can't afford the lighting or all the other chem dosing they require. I'm waiting to get a bigger tank for all that.. I was just told by my local fish store it a best to have them read zero but im gonna read the article posted thanks. And I'm making a refugium and bio pellet reactor so well go from there.

The beautiful thing about this hobby is, that while expensive, you can move forward at whatever pace your finances allow. There are some things in your equipment list which are a higher priority than others. Additionally, there are certain things which IMO, are essential. And, proper lighting isn't something you can get started without.

While a refugium and a bio pellet reactor are good ideas, personally, I would hold off on those and redirect the funding for those projects toward proper lighting.

 

[Joshua Agostoni]

The beautiful thing about this hobby is, that while expensive, you can move forward at whatever pace your finances allow. There are some things in your equipment list which are a higher priority than others. Additionally, there are certain things which IMO, are essential. And, proper lighting isn't something you can get started without.

While a refugium and a bio pellet reactor are good ideas, personally, I would hold off on those and redirect the funding for those projects toward proper lighting.

I have proper lighting currently... I don't have corals so I'm not worried about getting the expensive leds..

As for the reactor I'm making one myself for about 6 bucks cause I have everything I need.

 

[Joshua Agostoni]

Guys I have one more question.. I'm doing a diy reactor but it says yo not expect true result for 4 to 6 weeks. During that time should I hold off on any water changes and wait unroll I absolutely have no choice but doing one.

 

[Brew12]

Guys I have one more question.. I'm doing a diy reactor but it says yo not expect true result for 4 to 6 weeks. During that time should I hold off on any water changes and wait unroll I absolutely have no choice but doing one.

I would do regular water changes just as if you didn't have the reactor installed. I just wouldn't do them in response to nitrates. your substrate still needs to get vacuum occasionally along with other good husbandry practices.

 

[Joshua Agostoni]

I have never vacummed my sand... i have 10 nasrus snails. They vacuum for me

 

[Brew12]

I have never vacummed my sand... i have 10 nasrus snails. They vacuum for me

If you want to have enough to keep you from having to help out you would need much more than that, along with a more diverse crew. The nassarius snails are nice, but you would also need something more efficient at sifting and moving sand.
If you don't regularly stir or vacuum the sand you will eventually end up with cyano and/or dinoflagelletes.

 

[Joshua Agostoni]

Ok so my cleaner crew for a 55 gallon tank includes 10 nasarus snails 1 hermit crab two emerald crabs ( as long as they havnt died, can never seem to find them) and a purple lobster.

What else and how many of each should I get.