Need help figuring out how to remove water for water changes.

[Aschwartz]

I don't want to suck on a hose to get a siphon going. My mixing station is in the garage and I ran a line through the attic down the wall behind the tank. Works perfectly for pumping new water into the sump.. The problem is removing waste water easily. I ran another 1" line from the wall behind the tank up to the attic that discharges out to the yard. I have a Hydor pump that pumps water out fine...after it's primed. The problem is priming it is a giant hassle. Surely someone has figured this out. Any ideas? I'm thinking there may be a way to prime the Hydor with water from my return pump. The Hydor is only for removing waste water. I just want to open/close a valve or two and pump water out the easy way.

 

[ATB USA]

I don't want to suck on a hose to get a siphon going. My mixing station is in the garage and I ran a line through the attic down the wall behind the tank. Works perfectly for pumping new water into the sump.. The problem is removing waste water easily. I ran another 1" line from the wall behind the tank up to the attic that discharges out to the yard. I have a Hydor pump that pumps water out fine...after it's primed. The problem is priming it is a giant hassle. Surely someone has figured this out. Any ideas? I'm thinking there may be a way to prime the Hydor with water from my return pump. The Hydor is only for removing waste water. I just want to open/close a valve or two and pump water out the easy way.

You can put a maxijet in the tank just when you need to pump it out

 

[Pntbll687]

I don't want to suck on a hose to get a siphon going. My mixing station is in the garage and I ran a line through the attic down the wall behind the tank. Works perfectly for pumping new water into the sump.. The problem is removing waste water easily. I ran another 1" line from the wall behind the tank up to the attic that discharges out to the yard. I have a Hydor pump that pumps water out fine...after it's primed. The problem is priming it is a giant hassle. Surely someone has figured this out. Any ideas? I'm thinking there may be a way to prime the Hydor with water from my return pump. The Hydor is only for removing waste water. I just want to open/close a valve or two and pump water out the easy way.

Is the pump you want to use plumbed into the sump? I think you could just use a bulkhead and attach the pump to the sump, and in a ball valve to stop flow to the pump as needed.

 

[Gtinnel]

What is the height of the drain line? Is it just going up one story so 8 to 10'? If only about 8' you probably could get a return pump, or plumb it into your existing one, that can pump the water up that far. Also, if the drain in the yard is lower than the one in the tank/sump then you'll only need a pump to start a siphon after that it will freely flow, but you'll need some way to valve it off or break the siphon to stop removing water.
Actually if you can start the siphon I'd just use a valve and always leave the the line full of water so you can just open a valve to remove water (I believe it would work that way but my experience is generally with smaller lines).

I have a 5/8" inch line from my utility room into the ceiling across the house and down into my tank in the living room that keeps a siphon so I can easily fill up my ATO container from a bucket that is plumbed to it in the utility room. I am easily able to fill that line with water, on the occasion when I get air in the line, with a cheap pump that I've had for a probably a decade or so. I'd assume a newer pump should be able to easily fill your 1" line.

 

[Zakery Murray]

You could just buy a return pump and attach it to the hose.
You could buy one of the vacuums that have a hand squeeze thing in the line so you don't have to suck on the hose.
You could also buy one of the automatic vacuum things for water changes.
It all depends on how much you wanna spend for this, and how big the tank is imo.

 

[Aschwartz]

Is the pump you want to use plumbed into the sump? I think you could just use a bulkhead and attach the pump to the sump, and in a ball valve to stop flow to the pump as needed.

I haven't plumbed it yet but if I take water from the sump I can only get the volume of water the sump holds...maybe 20 gallons. It's a 40 gallon sump but probably only has 20 gallons or so in it. I'd rather pull from the tank.

 

[Zakery Murray]

Get a cheap return pump attach some clear line to it then just put the pump in the tank and the lead the line to go outside. When you're done all you gotta do is pull the pump up.

 

[Pntbll687]

I haven't plumbed it yet but if I take water from the sump I can only get the volume of water the sump holds...maybe 20 gallons. It's a 40 gallon sump but probably only has 20 gallons or so in it. I'd rather pull from the tank.

So just put a bulkhead on the tank where you want the waste to drain to.

You could even use the pump as a closed loop. Put a T on the return and a ball valve on each side, going to the tank and going to outside. shut the outside valve and it's a closed loop. Shut the other valve and open the outside, it now will drain water for a water change

 

[Azedenkae]

I don't want to suck on a hose to get a siphon going. My mixing station is in the garage and I ran a line through the attic down the wall behind the tank. Works perfectly for pumping new water into the sump.. The problem is removing waste water easily. I ran another 1" line from the wall behind the tank up to the attic that discharges out to the yard. I have a Hydor pump that pumps water out fine...after it's primed. The problem is priming it is a giant hassle. Surely someone has figured this out. Any ideas? I'm thinking there may be a way to prime the Hydor with water from my return pump. The Hydor is only for removing waste water. I just want to open/close a valve or two and pump water out the easy way.

Here, something like this could be very simple to connect to your current system to get the water flowing.

 

[Aschwartz]

What is the height of the drain line? Is it just going up one story so 8 to 10'? If only about 8' you probably could get a return pump, or plumb it into your existing one, that can pump the water up that far. Also, if the drain in the yard is lower than the one in the tank/sump then you'll only need a pump to start a siphon after that it will freely flow, but you'll need some way to valve it off or break the siphon to stop removing water.
Actually if you can start the siphon I'd just use a valve and always leave the the line full of water so you can just open a valve to remove water (I believe it would work that way but my experience is generally with smaller lines).

I have a 5/8" inch line from my utility room into the ceiling across the house and down into my tank in the living room that keeps a siphon so I can easily fill up my ATO container from a bucket that is plumbed to it in the utility room. I am easily able to fill that line with water, on the occasion when I get air in the line, with a cheap pump that I've had for a probably a decade or so. I'd assume a newer pump should be able to easily fill your 1" line.

I'm going up 10' then about 20' horizontally across the attic then down 10' and into the yard. I have a Hydor return pump just for this purpose. In testing, it works fine. Has good head pressure and does the job. The only problem is priming it. Like you said...maybe just put a valve in that keeps the line primed. Maybe I'm just overthinking it.

 

[Aschwartz]

You could just buy a return pump and attach it to the hose.
You could buy one of the vacuums that have a hand squeeze thing in the line so you don't have to suck on the hose.
You could also buy one of the automatic vacuum things for water changes.
It all depends on how much you wanna spend for this, and how big the tank is imo.

I thought about that in-line squeeze ball too. Might work.

 

[Gtinnel]

I'm going up 10' then about 20' horizontally across the attic then down 10' and into the yard. I have a Hydor return pump just for this purpose. In testing, it works fine. Has good head pressure and does the job. The only problem is priming it. Like you said...maybe just put a valve in that keeps the line primed. Maybe I'm just overthinking it.

I'm not sure that I understand the priming it part. Can you not just put the pump in your sump and then use it to pump the water out, or at least start a siphon then let the miracle of gravity do the rest of the work, again assuming your output is lower than the intake.

 

[Aschwartz]

I'm not sure that I understand the priming it part. Can you not just put the pump in your sump and then use it to pump the water out, or at least start a siphon then let the miracle of gravity do the rest of the work, again assuming your output is lower than the intake.

My discharge line goes up 10' to the attic then over about 20', back down and discharges out the side of the house. I don't think gravity will pull it that far up and out.‍ Also that would limit me to only being able to pump out the sump. I'd rather pull water from the tank so I can pump out as much or as little as I want, depending on the circumstances.

 

[Gtinnel]

My discharge line goes up 10' to the attic then over about 20', back down and discharges out the side of the house. I don't think gravity will pull it that far up and out.‍ Also that would limit me to only being able to pump out the sump. I'd rather pull water from the tank so I can pump out as much or as little as I want, depending on the circumstances.

Assuming the pump you are wanting to use is a normal style of return pump then it would be much easier to pump the water from the output side than try to use the suction side to start the water flowing. Also, once the line is full of water if the outlet is lower than the inlet side then it should form a siphon and pull the water up from the tank and out. I have a 5/8 inch line that goes up 8ft and horizontal about 30ft and it siphons water to my tank. There is a limit to how far up a siphon can move water based on atmospheric pressure but it will be considerably more than 10 ft.

I can understand not wanting to pump the water out of the sump if you are trying to do water changes of more gallons than your sump has though. An AWC using a peristaltic style where you remove and add water at the same time seems like it could be a good option for you too.

 

[Aschwartz]

Assuming the pump you are wanting to use is a normal style of return pump then it would be much easier to pump the water from the output side than try to use the suction side to start the water flowing. Also, once the line is full of water if the outlet is lower than the inlet side then it should form a siphon and pull the water up from the tank and out. I have a 5/8 inch line that goes up 8ft and horizontal about 30ft and it siphons water to my tank. There is a limit to how far up a siphon can move water based on atmospheric pressure but it will be considerably more than 10 ft.

I can understand not wanting to pump the water out of the sump if you are trying to do water changes of more gallons than your sump has though. An AWC using a peristaltic style where you remove and add water at the same time seems like it could be a good option for you too.

Thanks. I appreciate the help. I didn't really want to go full-on AWC just yet, though I may have to. It really isn't a matter of cost. I'm so deep into this setup at this point, what the heck. I guess I don't fully trust an AWC and that would also mean running more plumbing. Ughhh. Since I already installed the discharge line in the wall and finished all the drywall repair and painting, I'd like to use it if possible. It's just crazy to me that people are still sucking on siphon hoses and dragging 5-gallon buckets around. I'd have never guessed that moving 30 gallons of water from Point A to Point B with a pump would be so mind-boggling. I can pump my 25,000 gallon pool dry with the turn of a valve and flip of a switch.

 

[greetl01]

You don’t have to suck to start a syphon. Dip the hose in and fill the part that is submerged up. Then lift it and after the water starts draining down the hose hurry and put submerse it again. That will start your stool. Or you could buy a syphon with a squeeze ball on it.

 

[Gtinnel]

I actually tried starting the siphon in my 5/8" line by sucking the air out and ended up having to give up. I had to use a pump to fill the line with water. When you are dealing with that size and length of hose it is not easy to suck all of the air out.

When moving water for an aquarium we are generally dealing with pumps that are not designed for what we are wanting them to do. I'm assuming the pump you're trying to use probably isn't meant to have any resistance on the suction side. Honestly you can probably get some kind of pump that will do what you are wanting by pulling the air out of the line until it is full of water but I'm not sure what kind. I believe there are self priming diaphragm pump that would probably work for your application.

 

[Rubberfrog]

Thanks. I appreciate the help. I didn't really want to go full-on AWC just yet, though I may have to. It really isn't a matter of cost. I'm so deep into this setup at this point, what the heck. I guess I don't fully trust an AWC and that would also mean running more plumbing. Ughhh. Since I already installed the discharge line in the wall and finished all the drywall repair and painting, I'd like to use it if possible. It's just crazy to me that people are still sucking on siphon hoses and dragging 5-gallon buckets around. I'd have never guessed that moving 30 gallons of water from Point A to Point B with a pump would be so mind-boggling. I can pump my 25,000 gallon pool dry with the turn of a valve and flip of a switch.

I don't suck on a hose. I use the method outlined above to fill the beginning of the tube with water and then let it flow.

 

[Aschwartz]

I actually tried starting the siphon in my 5/8" line by sucking the air out and ended up having to give up. I had to use a pump to fill the line with water. When you are dealing with that size and length of hose it is not easy to suck all of the air out.

When moving water for an aquarium we are generally dealing with pumps that are not designed for what we are wanting them to do. I'm assuming the pump you're trying to use probably isn't meant to have any resistance on the suction side. Honestly you can probably get some kind of pump that will do what you are wanting by pulling the air out of the line until it is full of water but I'm not sure what kind. I believe there are self priming diaphragm pump that would probably work for your application.

Well I decided to bite the bullet on a Neptune Apex. It seems the only way to make it simple. I appreciate your help and feedback.