Need help! Nitrate Spike

Travis Rider · Aug 31, 2016

Humblefish said:
Do you have a photo of the clown before it died? Or at least provide a detailed description of how it looked? It's highly unusual for a clownfish to succumb to ich, so you may have a more serious disease lurking in your DT.

Just this one (taken 3 days ago). He seemed ok and then last night he started swimming really weird and twitching. He didn't have any noticeable spots and the cloudy white patch on his top seemed to be gone.

I did notice that my tang also had several white dots on her as well (she was scratching also). I am thinking of removing the last 4 fish and treating with copper.

Humblefish · Aug 31, 2016

That clownfish looks like it could have brook in that photo, but it's hard to be certain. There are photos of clownfish with brook here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/brooklynella.247938/

Travis Rider · Dec 7, 2016

I did a water change on Sunday and today I notice that my hippo tang and foxface have white spots all over. The tang is worse. Activity has not been abnormal and neither has behavior. Looks like I have another ick outbreak.

I want to say that the stress from water changes is what is triggering this. If I skip a water change the fish seem fine. I do the water change and clean my canister filter and I get an outbreak. I did notice that if I just do a water change without cleaning the filter the fish seem fine.

Ideas? I can't go fallow because I don't have a big enough QT to house my 8 fish.

melypr1985 · Dec 7, 2016

Travis Rider said:
Ideas? I can't go fallow because I don't have a big enough QT to house my 8 fish.

Going fallow is my only idea. If your fish are getting an outbreak from a simply filter cleaning, then the stress level in that tank must be pretty high.... Either that or the ick infestation has become so thick that they simply break out with it every time the life cycle allows it (which would be every couple weeks or so)

Travis Rider · Dec 12, 2016

Not entirely sure it is ick. I know that ick spots usually are oval but these don't look that way. I think it may be velvet but the fish are not showing too many signs of it. I have seen the head twitching and the sporadic swimming and the scratching. One sign I have not seen is the fish swimming into the flow of the power heads. I lost my lawnmower blenny yesterday and now my hippo tang this morning.

Is there any alternative to copper treatment for velvet, one that may be safe for invertebrates?

Brew12 · Dec 12, 2016

Travis Rider said:
Not entirely sure it is ick. I know that ick spots usually are oval but these don't look that way. I think it may be velvet but the fish are not showing too many signs of it. I have seen the head twitching and the sporadic swimming and the scratching. One sign I have not seen is the fish swimming into the flow of the power heads. I lost my lawnmower blenny yesterday and now my hippo tang this morning.

Is there any alternative to copper treatment for velvet, one that may be safe for invertebrates?

Unfortunately, there is not. If there was the inventor would be a very rich man!

Bagorat78 · Dec 12, 2016

In my opinion, before quarantine your fishes try to fix the issue that is stressing them. Transferring them to a quarantine tank may stress them more. Maybe that substrate you are using is causing you a big problem (I faced that before); try to use "Vodka", yes... read about using vodka to reduce your Nitrates (1,2 ml for 100gal is what some recommends). The main target is to mitigate what is causing your Nitrate spikes; and you have to be patient... don't drive yourself crazy changing everything at once, go step by step. Check for proper water circulation, dead spots, over feeding and so many things that may be leading you to have your fishes stressed.

Brew12 · Dec 12, 2016

Travis Rider said:
Not entirely sure it is ick. I know that ick spots usually are oval but these don't look that way. I think it may be velvet but the fish are not showing too many signs of it. I have seen the head twitching and the sporadic swimming and the scratching. One sign I have not seen is the fish swimming into the flow of the power heads. I lost my lawnmower blenny yesterday and now my hippo tang this morning.

Is there any alternative to copper treatment for velvet, one that may be safe for invertebrates?

Travis, I know it isn't what you want to hear, but your fish are better off in a small QT than staying in your DT. It really doesn't matter if it is Ich or Velvet. Your best option is to get them into a QT and start a copper treatment. Copper will treat both.

Remember that these parasites have a known lifecycle. What you could be seeing is them dropping off the fish after they finish feeding so they can reproduce. A week or two later (typically) the next generation hatch and start attacking the fish. It may look like the fish is getting better but that typically isn't the case. It is just the reprieve before the next wave of attacks starts with each generation getting larger and worse.

Travis Rider · Dec 12, 2016

I noticed right before my tang died that she lost most of her color and she looked like she was rolled around in powder sugar. Is this common for velvet or could it be brook?

Ubans13 · Dec 12, 2016

I very recently went through the same thing! I moved all fish to my QT and have started the copper. Everyone seems to be doing very good. And they were definitely stress from the move to QT but it's the best option. The faster u move to QT and treatment the better chance u have of keeping the fish that are still alive. I to lost my tang.

melypr1985 · Dec 12, 2016

Travis Rider said:
I noticed right before my tang died that she lost most of her color and she looked like she was rolled around in powder sugar. Is this common for velvet or could it be brook?

Yes. The "powered sugar" look is very indicative of velvet as are the quick deaths you are experiencing. If you want to save the remainder of your fish I highly suggest immediate QT with copper. I suggest using coppersafe wtih the API test kit. Raise the copper level to 2ppm within 24 hours and do not use any prime or other ammonia reducers with copper. A Seachem ammonia alert badge is recommended to keep track of ammonia in QT since copper will render normal liquid test kits useless.

Travis Rider · Dec 13, 2016

Got home to check on the fish and found this guy. I did a fresh water bath for 5 minutes and this pic was taken after that.

Confirmation on what it could be. I am pretty sure it is Brook.

melypr1985 · Dec 13, 2016

Travis Rider said:
Got home to check on the fish and found this guy. I did a fresh water bath for 5 minutes and this pic was taken after that.

Confirmation on what it could be. I am pretty sure it is Brook.

Now, that is an excellent picture and certainly classic Brook. You'll want to treat all the fish who share water with him and go fallow in the display for 6 weeks Brooklynella (clownfish disease)

Humblefish · Dec 13, 2016

It is indeed brook: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/brooklynella.247938/

Humblefish · Dec 13, 2016

melypr1985 said:
Now, that is an excellent picture and certainly classic Brook.

^^ Yes! @Travis Rider May we add your photo to the brook sticky?

Travis Rider · Dec 13, 2016

Humblefish said:
^^ Yes! @Travis Rider May we add your photo to the brook sticky?

Would be perfectly fine with that.

Travis Rider · Dec 13, 2016

Thank you all for your posts and help with this. Unfortunately I did not get to my fish quick enough, I lost all my residence in my 75G tank. My 30G reef is doing better than ever with no signs of any illnesses.

As a recently new member of the marine hobby (have had freshwater for 10+ years) I wasn't sure how to decipher the differences between some of these illnesses. I have a good handle on what to do and what to watch for now. I think we all learn the hard way when starting in this hobby. Looks like I need to invest in some good QT equipment.

melypr1985 · Dec 13, 2016

Travis Rider said:
Thank you all for your posts and help with this. Unfortunately I did not get to my fish quick enough, I lost all my residence in my 75G tank. My 30G reef is doing better than ever with no signs of any illnesses.

As a recently new member of the marine hobby (have had freshwater for 10+ years) I wasn't sure how to decipher the differences between some of these illnesses. I have a good handle on what to do and what to watch for now. I think we all learn the hard way when starting in this hobby. Looks like I need to invest in some good QT equipment.

I'm sorry for the losses

, but I'm glad you've gotten some knowledge from it and future fish will benefit from it.

Brew12 · Dec 13, 2016

I'm sorry you lost your fish.

I would definitely recommend getting some QT equipment. And it doesn't have to be fancy. Hit the $1/gallon sale at Pecto, get a cheap light. Get an oversized HOB filter and heater. Throw in a few dollars worth of PVC fittings and you can get a 10g QT for under $50. It can pay for itself by saving a single fish.

This is a sticky in this section and I recommend at least reviewing it on occasion, especially if you see something your fish are doing that you don't understand.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-disease-index.247600/

Humblefish · Dec 13, 2016

I'm sorry for your losses, but at least you are learning from it. I encounter people everyday who keep trying every trick in the book to rid their tank of parasites, usually with negative results. I too will oftentimes see a "perfect looking specimen" I would just love to put right in my DT and forgo QT on. But experience has taught me that the risk of doing such is too great.