Need help starting my 1st Reef Tank

[MarsWulf5]

I want to start out right. I purchased a new 65 gallon tank and stand and I want a reef tank that will flourish even the most temperamental corals with some reef friendly fish.

The tank I have is not drilled. I know I need to either drill the tank or use an overflow box. My local aquarium suggested that I return my tank and order one that is already drilled. Any opinions on this?

Also, the owner of ths shop was showing me a 220 gallon with a small chip in ths corner - and offered it to me at near half price but with a pricey stand. My concern, aside from more startup and maintenance costs - is that once the tank is filled with water and running that the chip with spread into a crack - or that the silicone will be compromised and the tank will leak or will just simply crack. Is this a valid concern? Does this shop owner seem trustworthy offering me that - or is that questionable? I obviously dont want any future problems when making this type of investment. Thoughts?

I'm also considering returning my 65 gallon and buying a 90 gallon or a 125 gallon that is predrilled - but nearly 4X what I paid for my 65. Ugh! I just dont know what to do.

What is my best option? Keep what I have and use a overflow box? Keep what I have and drill it? Or buy a bigger tank that is already drilled? Please advise.

Also, as far as the sump is concerned - is it worth the money to by a premade sump? Is an algae scrubber a must have? I know I can wait on the protein scrubber and better lights until my tank is cycled and has inhabitants, but I dont really understand how the sump acts as a filter without a refugium or an actual filter. Is a refugium necessary? Without it how does a sump support nitrifying bacteria???and Do I need a wet/dry filter? I just dont get it.

I want a mixed reef tank with some fish - so - what does my sump need aside from a return pump? I'm so confused and I dont want to start anything and be dissapointed. I'm willing to go very slow and do this right from the get go. Please advise.

 

[Terri Caton]

Hi, you are going to get a lot of help on here.

I know nothing about drilling tanks.

But, I will tell you never fully trust someone who is out to make money on you. In my opinion forget the chipped tank. Why take a chance?

As far as the sump you are going to want filtration right off the bat and a protein skimmer as soon as you start adding livestock.

There are lots of opinions on algae scrubbers vs refugiums. Just search for that on here.

Welcome to reefing!

 

[huckjai]

Where is the chip on the 220 gallon tank? If you can get pictures, it would help better determine if it's just cosmetic or structural.

You can buy sump baffle kits to use on aqueon breeder tanks. I got a 40 gallon breeder tank and a baffle kit from ebay and made my own sump. A lot cheaper than premade sumps, and works great. Just may not be as aesthetically pleasing.

I would probably return the tank and get one that is set up correctly. Drilling a tank can be costly, or you can try doing it yourself if you're handy. I personally wouldn't drill a tank myself unless I got the tank for a cheap price, or there was something special about it that I had to use it.

 

[The Aquatic Arsenal]

Here is some info for you:

Cycling an Aquarium

Cycling a new aquarium. One of the earliest topics a new aquarium hobbyist needs to learn is how to properly cycle their aquarium. There is a ton of information on this process and many different methods on how to accomplish it. There are many different chemical and biological cycles our tank...

www.reef2reef.com

The Supreme Guide To Setting Up A Saltwater Reef Aquarium

You can also google "52 weeks of reefing" - this is a series that BRS put out this year as well.

 

[huckjai]

I'd say get your tank, sump, filter (either filter socks, or filter roll machines) and return pump first. Definitely get a bigger sump so you can expand as you go. As in adding a protein skimmer, or room for refugium or algae scrubber. It depends on how your tank turns out if you really need an age scrubber. You might not really need a sump to help support with nitrifying bacteria if your main tank has enough live rock for the bacteria to grow on.

Unfortunately there is no real black and white way to set up a tank as each tank is unique. I learned that you just start with the basics, and then adjust as your livestock grows. Seems to be working for me.

 

[Samina]

Welcome to R2R!!

If it were me, I’d return the 65g. You can go with any other size, but the 120g is an awesome size which you can have the space you want and need to put together a great aquascape. The dimensions of a 120g make accessibility easier so maintenance tasks are easier too. However, you can always keep the 65g and do a HOB overflow (LifeReef makes a great one) and still be able to utilize a sump.

With that said, I’d personally skip the chipped 220g. I just wouldn’t chance it. Also, like you mentioned, setup costs, maintenance cost and maintenance work is higher with larger tanks. Big thing to consider. Another big thing to consider (which can be good or bad, depending on how you feel), before jumping into a big tank like that is that it will take a lot longer and slot more money to fill out and give you that look of a grown out reef tank. Are you willing to wait that long?

I would suggest you get the biggest sump you can get that will fit in your stand and to save money, I’m all for those baffle kits you can get on eBay. If done correctly, they work just as well as premade sumps.

You do not need a refugium or algae scrubber. A refugium (houses macroalgae) is a beneficial addition to your setup though because if applied properly, it can help control nutrients, help to remove certain toxins, provide a home for little critters and pods, and help stabilize pH. So the refugium is a component of biological filtration. But your live rock in the tank is your primary vessel in biological filtration.

An algae scrubber (provides a controlled growth area and environment for nuisance microalgae, most commonly: green hair algae) is something you can add down the line if you’d like.

You do not need a wet/dry trickle filter.

I would recommend you get a protein skimmer. I would not wait on lighting and flow (in tank and return pump). Lights and flow is something you should not skimp on. By that, I do not mean you need the most expensive brand or model- rather, it’s making sure you do your research and plan out for the most part what type of livestock you’d like to keep. That will narrow down what type/range of lighting you should be looking at. You can always ask for opinions too on your selections and folks will gladly help. Same thing with flow and return pump.

Decide what tank you’d like to go with and from there, work on the initial components: sump, lighting, flow, skimmer, heater and go from there.

How do you plan to cycle and are you going with live or dry rock?

 

[MarsWulf5]

It seems that returning the 65G and getting a predrilled tank is now on the agenda - and I really think it's better to start over right now - before I really start - than to use an overflow just because I want to get things moving. Good advice.

At my current understanding, I have mixed feelings on live rock. I have used live rock in the past in a fish only tank with a biowheel filter in an Eclipse saltwater system. The tank was very successful until one day I added some Figi live rock and got some sort of pest that killed all but one of my fish, the Mandarin, and it also left the empreas shrimp alone, but that was It. It was small, flat, grey, swam super duper fast. It would attach to the sides of my fish and bit them with a proboscis like a mosquito and would then swim off like a bullet. It destroyed the tank. There was no way I could think of to get rid of it and everyone I've ever aaked about it jist scratches their head. I was only able to ever capture only one of them. It was over for my fish and for that tank. I'm very very leary of live rock. It just seems so risky. Thoughts?

Also, it is true that live rock must be kept submerged when purchased? Because the live rock I bought at a reputable aquarium shop was taken out of the tank, wet, but not put in a bucket or bag of water. Should it have been kept submerged?

One more question about the sump and cycling. The filter socks, sump, and return pump need to be going as the tank cycles correct? Should I attempt to cycle without the sump? I have live sand, Bio-Spira, and waa gonna get some water from an established reef tank - and was planning on adding a couple clownfish within the first week as the tank cycles. Should I have the sump, pump, filter socks on, during this process?

It seems so strange to me not to have an actual filter with activated carbon, bioballs, etc... I get the nitrogen cycle, and the purpose of the skimmer - and I was told I may not need a skimmer with a proper refugium - is that true? I'm gonna add a good skimmer anyway and AI lights once the tank is cycled - but still wondering if a refugium can replace a skimmer?

Whats the biggest tank you would go with startling out? Should I go to the 90 or really aim for the 125? Biiger thanks are easier to maintain right? I like the idea of a 125G but my wallet keeps saying 90G specially when considering lighting. Thoughts?

 

[MarsWulf5]

Welcome to R2R!!

If it were me, I’d return the 65g. You can go with any other size, but the 120g is an awesome size which you can have the space you want and need to put together a great aquascape. The dimensions of a 120g make accessibility easier so maintenance tasks are easier too. However, you can always keep the 65g and do a HOB overflow (LifeReef makes a great one) and still be able to utilize a sump.

With that said, I’d personally skip the chipped 220g. I just wouldn’t chance it. Also, like you mentioned, setup costs, maintenance cost and maintenance work is higher with larger tanks. Big thing to consider. Another big thing to consider (which can be good or bad, depending on how you feel), before jumping into a big tank like that is that it will take a lot longer and slot more money to fill out and give you that look of a grown out reef tank. Are you willing to wait that long?

I would suggest you get the biggest sump you can get that will fit in your stand and to save money, I’m all for those baffle kits you can get on eBay. If done correctly, they work just as well as premade sumps.

You do not need a refugium or algae scrubber. A refugium (houses macroalgae) is a beneficial addition to your setup though because if applied properly, it can help control nutrients, help to remove certain toxins, provide a home for little critters and pods, and help stabilize pH. So the refugium is a component of biological filtration. But your live rock in the tank is your primary vessel in biological filtration.

An algae scrubber (provides a controlled growth area and environment for nuisance microalgae, most commonly: green hair algae) is something you can add down the line if you’d like.

You do not need a wet/dry trickle filter.

I would recommend you get a protein skimmer. I would not wait on lighting and flow (in tank and return pump). Lights and flow is something you should not skimp on. By that, I do not mean you need the most expensive brand or model- rather, it’s making sure you do your research and plan out for the most part what type of livestock you’d like to keep. That will narrow down what type/range of lighting you should be looking at. You can always ask for opinions too on your selections and folks will gladly help. Same thing with flow and return pump.

Decide what tank you’d like to go with and from there, work on the initial components: sump, lighting, flow, skimmer, heater and go from there.

How do you plan to cycle and are you going with live or dry rock?

I have had an issue with some sort of parasitic organism that was grey, flat, swam very very fast, and had a proboscis which it uses to bite my fish in a fish only tank years ago. The pest killed all but my Mandarin and my Empress shrimp. It put an end to my tank - as nobody I asked could help and I was only evwr able to catch one of them. So, I'm very leery of live rock. It seems very risky.

To cycle, I have live sand, Bio-Spira (nitrifying bacteria additive), and was going to add some water from an established reef tank, as well a a couple clown fish after a couple days. I understand the benefits of live rock - but I'm scared of it for good reason after what happened. Any thoughts?

 

[ylreefer]

I want to start out right. I purchased a new 65 gallon tank and stand and I want a reef tank that will flourish even the most temperamental corals with some reef friendly fish.

The tank I have is not drilled. I know I need to either drill the tank or use an overflow box. My local aquarium suggested that I return my tank and order one that is already drilled. Any opinions on this?

Also, the owner of ths shop was showing me a 220 gallon with a small chip in ths corner - and offered it to me at near half price but with a pricey stand. My concern, aside from more startup and maintenance costs - is that once the tank is filled with water and running that the chip with spread into a crack - or that the silicone will be compromised and the tank will leak or will just simply crack. Is this a valid concern? Does this shop owner seem trustworthy offering me that - or is that questionable? I obviously dont want any future problems when making this type of investment. Thoughts?

I'm also considering returning my 65 gallon and buying a 90 gallon or a 125 gallon that is predrilled - but nearly 4X what I paid for my 65. Ugh! I just dont know what to do.

What is my best option? Keep what I have and use a overflow box? Keep what I have and drill it? Or buy a bigger tank that is already drilled? Please advise.

Also, as far as the sump is concerned - is it worth the money to by a premade sump? Is an algae scrubber a must have? I know I can wait on the protein scrubber and better lights until my tank is cycled and has inhabitants, but I dont really understand how the sump acts as a filter without a refugium or an actual filter. Is a refugium necessary? Without it how does a sump support nitrifying bacteria???and Do I need a wet/dry filter? I just dont get it.

I want a mixed reef tank with some fish - so - what does my sump need aside from a return pump? I'm so confused and I dont want to start anything and be dissapointed. I'm willing to go very slow and do this right from the get go. Please advise.

Hey bud, good day as already said you will get a lot of good help here.

Just to stick to your initial questions here goes,

As for the tank, a 65g tank is a nice size tank, however Im pretty sure you will very rapidly outgrow that tank and want a larger one. Since your starting off from scratch I would probably advise going for the biggest tank you have room for in your life, both physically and financially. Larger tanks do remain stable for longer periods of time and are more forgiving to fluctuations in paramiters, something that will be a plus for a newby as he gets to understand his tank.

As for the 220g with the chip, put simply, don't do it. I'm not saying that it's not safe, my tank actually has a chip on the front pane bottom left corner. Bit this is just superficial and not structural. But if I wasn't 100% sure myself I wouldn't have use it after moving it. Again as a new be the last thing you wanted to be doing is worrying everytime you leave the house if the fish will be on the floor when you return home.

On that note I think the 125g would be a great size and should keep you happy for at least 5 years or longer.

Pre mde sumps, are beautifully made these days, and you pay for that. For me this is definitely somewhere money can be saved if need be. I would love to have a pre made Arcrylic sump from one of the top suppliers but I just can't justify the cost compared to adding a few baffles to a glass tsnk, which by the way if silicone in right can be Arcrylic, which is what I've always done and it works fine as there is usually equal pressure on both sides of the baffles.

A sump is simply a remote tank to house equipment, it does not necessarily have to house biological media as most reef tanks run on live rock for the bio media which is why you don't always see such media in the sumps. Your protien skimmer is your main source of nutrient export in most sumps and is considered a part of the filtration system.

Refugiums are great for exporting nutrients as well as housing pods for finicky feeders such as mandarins. That said there are again other methods of doing this such as carbon dosing be it bio pellets or a liquid form. (something to look into a little later parhaps) so again only necessary if your system requires it, which you will find out by testing and as you become experienced and know your tank you will be able to tell from looking at it.

Wet and dry filter are still in use today but much less so, you should have a read up on this but most reefer stay away from them these days, they take up space and are, to put simply not required.


The basic in sump kit would be some sort of pre filter, usually filter sock or filter wool. Socks are great until you need to clean them. So I prefer filter wool. It's cheap and easy to replace. And when I go on a trip for a week or so I just remove it altogether so it doesn't glog up. A protien skimmer 1 size bigger than you need is always good, (plan for this when spacing your baffles in your sump design. A bubble trap then finally the return chamber, which you really want to be as large as possible to handle any back syphon once the power is cut.

It's always a good idea to make the sump keeping in mind that you may add a reactor or 2 later for carbon/phosphate remover.

That wouks be your basic sump, but of course they can include Refugiums / Auto top off tanks, algea scrubbers and all sorts.

Start simple but with room to grow is the key I believe.

You may take a look at my build post for my 110g if you like to see a sump design I used.

An another Note, keeping it real, you will. Definitely have a few frustrations with the tank. We all do. Even the most experienced of reefer, whatever you do in the way of changes make is slow and ask for advice.

Happy reefing.

 

[MarsWulf5]

Thanks so much for the thoughtful response. I have learned more in the last 2 hours on this forum than I have watching literally 10 hours on YouTube and spending hours in the aquarium shop scratching my head.

Everything you said was thorough and I really have a much clearer picture of where to head from here. Perfect.
Thanks man.

 

[MERKEY]

Hello and welcome, you're in the right spot!

 

[ylreefer]

Thanks so much for the thoughtful response. I have learned more in the last 2 hours on this forum than I have watching literally 10 hours on YouTube and spending hours in the aquarium shop scratching my head.

Everything you said was thorough and I really have a much clearer picture of where to head from here. Perfect.
Thanks man.

That's what we're all here for

 

[Clownfish2]

I want to start out right. I purchased a new 65 gallon tank and stand and I want a reef tank that will flourish even the most temperamental corals with some reef friendly fish.

The tank I have is not drilled. I know I need to either drill the tank or use an overflow box. My local aquarium suggested that I return my tank and order one that is already drilled. Any opinions on this?

Also, the owner of ths shop was showing me a 220 gallon with a small chip in ths corner - and offered it to me at near half price but with a pricey stand. My concern, aside from more startup and maintenance costs - is that once the tank is filled with water and running that the chip with spread into a crack - or that the silicone will be compromised and the tank will leak or will just simply crack. Is this a valid concern? Does this shop owner seem trustworthy offering me that - or is that questionable? I obviously dont want any future problems when making this type of investment. Thoughts?

I'm also considering returning my 65 gallon and buying a 90 gallon or a 125 gallon that is predrilled - but nearly 4X what I paid for my 65. Ugh! I just dont know what to do.

What is my best option? Keep what I have and use a overflow box? Keep what I have and drill it? Or buy a bigger tank that is already drilled? Please advise.

Also, as far as the sump is concerned - is it worth the money to by a premade sump? Is an algae scrubber a must have? I know I can wait on the protein scrubber and better lights until my tank is cycled and has inhabitants, but I dont really understand how the sump acts as a filter without a refugium or an actual filter. Is a refugium necessary? Without it how does a sump support nitrifying bacteria???and Do I need a wet/dry filter? I just dont get it.

I want a mixed reef tank with some fish - so - what does my sump need aside from a return pump? I'm so confused and I dont want to start anything and be dissapointed. I'm willing to go very slow and do this right from the get go. Please advise.

1. buy the size tank you think u will want in 2 to 4 years.
2. Buy a reef ready pre drilled tank. I bought my 110 gallon with stand from Deep Blue Professional through LFS for around $750.
3. DO NOT buy the chipped tank! Even just 10 gallons of water spilled on your floor can cost significant damage to your home.
4. Quarantine your fish in a cheap hospital tank before adding to your big tank.
5. A skimmer and refugium is not required.
6. For sump, buy a glass non drilled tank and silicone some glass baffles in it if u want to save money. I bought an expensive $500 trigger systems sump for my 110 gallon realized after I could have just bought a tank from Petsmart and add some glass baffles.
7. Introduce herbivorous fish to your tank first to beat any hair algae outbreaks.
8. Watch a lot of BRS Tv reefing videos

 

[beaslbob]

Glad we could help.

FWIW and some cost saving stuff if you're a diyer like me. No hopefully better. LOL

A very reliable HOB overflow can be made for $20 worth of pvc.

The sump can be virtually any old container. On my old 55g I used a storage container with the long edge for and aft. So the aft stuck out the back and this allowed the drain to be a straight shot. Baffling effects can be simply done with a smaller container inside the larger and the pump in one of those smaller containers.

Not for everyone but I just crammed in some egg crate 3" in front of the back glass and added 2, 2 tube, 4' utility fixtures behind the tank pointing forward to light up that area. That formed an in tank refugium where macro algae and pods thrived protected from the fish. Nitrates dropped to unmeasurable in 3 weeks.

Two tangs increased to 4-5 inches in a year, the tank ran to 6-7 years with no water changes and using tap water. But easy soft type corals.

the idea was to balance out and stabilize the system through the macro action.

I also used rocks from a local limestone quarry instead of live rock and common play sand from building supply stores vrs live sand.

I also implement the improved diy 2 part system here: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php

But that just me and my .02

 

[MarsWulf5]

1. buy the size tank you think u will want in 2 to 4 years.
2. Buy a reef ready pre drilled tank. I bought my 110 gallon with stand from Deep Blue Professional through LFS for around $750.
3. DO NOT buy the chipped tank! Even just 10 gallons of water spilled on your floor can cost significant damage to your home.
4. Quarantine your fish in a cheap hospital tank before adding to your big tank.
5. A skimmer and refugium is not required.
6. For sump, buy a glass non drilled tank and silicone some glass baffles in it if u want to save money. I bought an expensive $500 trigger systems sump for my 110 gallon realized after I could have just bought a tank from Petsmart and add some glass baffles.
7. Introduce herbivorous fish to your tank first to beat any hair algae outbreaks.
8. Watch a lot of BRS Tv reefing videos

Thanks for the great advice. I went to the shop today and I went with a 125 Gallon with a nice wood stand and matching wooden hood, I went with as large a sump I could fit - I know it was extra money but I like the asthetic and I think I a lot of room to grow with this sump. I also bought and return pump he recommended; a It for D DC Cintrollable Universal Pump 1200 GPH. I paid in full - with tax $1980, so over six times where I started out cash wise. The owner did knock off a few bicks here and there. It was more than I anticipated spending - but - I feel I did this right so far. It's a learning curve for sure. I pick up the tank and stand tomorrow - brought the sump and pump home with me today. Needless to say, I am so "pumped!" This is an amazing tank! - custom made, predrilled overflow unit, black perimeter, and the stand and hood are custom made out of real hardwood - I think it's Oak.

I have pics of the sump and pump - I'll post a pic of the tank tomorrow once I get it home. : )

1. buy the size tank you think u will want in 2 to 4 years.
2. Buy a reef ready pre drilled tank. I bought my 110 gallon with stand from Deep Blue Professional through LFS for around $750.
3. DO NOT buy the chipped tank! Even just 10 gallons of water spilled on your floor can cost significant damage to your home.
4. Quarantine your fish in a cheap hospital tank before adding to your big tank.
5. A skimmer and refugium is not required.
6. For sump, buy a glass non drilled tank and silicone some glass baffles in it if u want to save money. I bought an expensive $500 trigger systems sump for my 110 gallon realized after I could have just bought a tank from Petsmart and add some glass baffles.
7. Introduce herbivorous fish to your tank first to beat any hair algae outbreaks.
8. Watch a lot of BRS Tv reefing videos

1. buy the size tank you think u will want in 2 to 4 years.
2. Buy a reef ready pre drilled tank. I bought my 110 gallon with stand from Deep Blue Professional through LFS for around $750.
3. DO NOT buy the chipped tank! Even just 10 gallons of water spilled on your floor can cost significant damage to your home.
4. Quarantine your fish in a cheap hospital tank before adding to your big tank.
5. A skimmer and refugium is not required.
6. For sump, buy a glass non drilled tank and silicone some glass baffles in it if u want to save money. I bought an expensive $500 trigger systems sump for my 110 gallon realized after I could have just bought a tank from Petsmart and add some glass baffles.
7. Introduce herbivorous fish to your tank first to beat any hair algae outbreaks.
8. Watch a lot of BRS Tv reefing videos

I went to the shop today and I went with a 125g with an Oak stank and hood. It's a custom tank, predrilled overflow, and black perimeter.

I also went with a

1. buy the size tank you think u will want in 2 to 4 years.
2. Buy a reef ready pre drilled tank. I bought my 110 gallon with stand from Deep Blue Professional through LFS for around $750.
3. DO NOT buy the chipped tank! Even just 10 gallons of water spilled on your floor can cost significant damage to your home.
4. Quarantine your fish in a cheap hospital tank before adding to your big tank.
5. A skimmer and refugium is not required.
6. For sump, buy a glass non drilled tank and silicone some glass baffles in it if u want to save money. I bought an expensive $500 trigger systems sump for my 110 gallon realized after I could have just bought a tank from Petsmart and add some glass baffles.
7. Introduce herbivorous fish to your tank first to beat any hair algae outbreaks.
8. Watch a lot of BRS Tv reefing videos

I went to the shop today and I went with a 125g 4ft predrilled custom tank with a black perimeter where the glass meets. It has a custom made Oak stand and an Oak hood. It's super fancy.

I also went with a 36x14x18 Said in Proflex sump - and a Hydor Seltz D DC Controllable Universal Pump.

Paid in full with 9.8% sales tax: $1980
So, over six times where I was when I decided to do this. I really feel that I'm starting out right though. The sump and pump was an expense I never anticipated - and although this was an expensive option, it's way nice than and better designed than anything I would have done myself as being brand new to this type of set up.

Here is a pic of the sump and pump which I brought home with me today. I will post a picture of the tank and stuff when I get pick it up and get it home tomorrow - I have a friend coming over to help me get it in the house. I'm so excited. This really is a dream tank for a new guy like me and although it was pricey for my income there is no other way I'd rather spend that money. I'm so super excited to get it home and set up and start the cycling process! Woohoo! I'm a reefer!