Need Help with a new 160 gallon setup!

[Maxx Yung]

This will be a long thread; I will have to ask questions about all the lights, return pumps, etc.

Background Information:
I will be getting a Red Sea Reefer XXL 750, with a 160 gallon display and 40 gallon sump. The dimensions are 71 x 25.6 x 58.3 (in inches, LWH). I have owned a 16 gallon NanoCube and a 32 gallon NanoCube, or whatever it is called. However, this will be new to me because it has more advanced technologies in it, such as Controller Systems, Algae Scrubbers, etc. I plan to have a mix of reef and fish.

Lighting:
Right now, I am deciding on a LED light system, possibly a Hybrid. I am looking at either the 60" LED T5 HYBRID or the Hydra 52 HD. I think they both can be wireless controlled... My problems are:
A1. Which ones do you recommend?
A2. Is the 60" T5 LED long enough for my 71 inch tank? How many Hydra 52 HD would I need?

Sump: (The part I don't understand the most)
So, the Red Sea states they don't come with anything, which means I need to buy each piece separate. I did some research, and now I plan to get some:

Algae Scrubber, CW-100 EXTERNAL, with a H380 Halo II LED.
BULK Bio-pellets and BIOCHURN 120R RECIRCULATING BIOPELLET REACTOR
BULK GFO GRANULAR FERRIC OXIDE and GFO & CARBON REACTOR MJ1200 PUMP
BULK PREMIUM ROX 0.8 CARBON (Correct me, but this is supposed to be in filter socks?)
CERAMIC BIO-MEDIA PLATE (This is supposed to grow beneficial bacteria, right?)
ARCTICA CHILLER 1⁄4 HP (chiller)
JAGER TRUTEMP AQUARIUM HEATER 300W (heater)
AquaMaxx Cone5 (skimmer)
COR-20 INTELLIGENT RETURN PUMP (2000 GPH) (Return Pump)

My questions are:
B1. Is this setup like overkill?
B2. What are reactors, and do I need a separate pump for this?
B3. Are Algae Scrubbers useful?
B4. Recommend me what to get and what not to get - also tell me if some of the stuff are not good.
B5. Do I need an UV Sterilizer?
B6. How do I setup a sump like this?

Inside the Tank Itself:
C1: After some research, I found that I needed at least 200lb of sand.... is this really necessary? I am getting Carib Sea Arag-Alive Fiji Pink Sand.
C2: Do I need additives/chemicals? I heard some people like using stuff like these, such as Coral Snow.
C3: What are some good fish and corals to get? I prefer colorful, easy-hard level ones, but not extreme care level.
C4: After I establish this, how often do I change water? Should I change like 10% every 2 weeks?

If you got up to here, thank you. I hope you help me, this is pretty confusing at first

 

[PatW]

Most marine systems are pretty low nutrient. For aquariums, we want nitrates less than 10 ppm. If you are growing acropora, about 1 to 2 ppm. You want phosphates at less than .03 ppm.

When you feed your fish, you are adding nitrates and phosphates. So you need a way to export the nitrates and phosphates. Otherwise, they will build up in the tank and produce an algae explosion.

Common means of nutrient export:

Water changes. These are brutally simple. Being simple, they can be really effective.

Protein skimmers. Remove macro molecules. They will reduce the build up of nutrients.

Macro algae in a refugium and algae scrubbers. The idea is you grow algae in your sump under a strong light. The algae grows and absorbs nitrates and phosphates. You toss out part of the algae and thus export nutrients. This method can be very effective.

Biomedia and carbon. You add a source of fixed carbon like alcohol, vinegar or something fancy. It causes bacteria to grow in the water. The bacteria absorb nitrates and phosphates. The bacteria are removed by the skimmer resulting in nutrient export. When I need to do this, I just add vinegar to the water.

GFO will absorb phosphates. You stick it in a reactor basically a tube with water pumped through it. It is a good way to remove phosphates but the above methods usually are enough.

In most situations, just running algae in a refugium with a skimmer is enough for my tank and I run a low nutrient system. I have used all of these methods.

 

[Maxx Yung]

So is it too much? Also need help with the lights, Hydra or T5 LED?

 

[Subsea]

Max,
Welcome to the addiction, I mean hobby. I have being doing it for almost 50 years. It is still a passion. As I am a minimalist with my reefkeeping style. I choose not to run low nutrient SPS systems. I do not like to be a slave with money or labor to my hobby. You are starting out with a very large tank as a newbie.

Is your equipment list too extensive to grow coral? For certain, it is unnecessary. Before you choose equipment, you need to decide what is going into your display. Demands of tank inhabitants is the number one reason to choose equipment or methods.

Many of the questions that you asked are prompted by current In vogue equipment & methods. I suggest you slow down and read a few good books before you play ping pong on reef hobby forums with public opinion. “The Natural Reef Aquarium” by John Tullock is an excellent read. Livestock in a reef tank determines equipment. The inhabitants should be compatiable thus “tank biotheme”. The most important point that I took away from the book is, “Less technology/More biology”. To that end, I have embraced algae, bacteria and sponges as my biofiltration system.

@Maxx Yung
With a 160G system, longevity & stability should be cornerstone to your priorities. Read some more before you buy equipment.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/wet-salty-for-christmas-2017.428100/

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/2...m-on-top-with-30g-ecosystem-mud-macro.421526/

 

[Maxx Yung]

Thanks for your reply! I decided to get a 160 gallon tank because I read that it is easier to maintain (although more costly) than smaller tanks. I've had my 16 and 32 gallon tanks for a decade now, so I think it's okay.
I decided not to get the Biopellets and the reactor as well as the algae scrubber and instead grow some Cheato inside the refugium. I also decided to get some copepods. So to my knowledge, Copepods I can put it into my refuge and help with lowering nutrients. I have a few questions... again.
1. What does harvesting mean? Do you take some from your refuge and put them into the main tank for fish to eat?
2. Do I need to feed them? If so, what (links please)

 

[Maxx Yung]

Additionally, is it possible to run a:
GFO and Carbon Dual Reactor with Biopellets in filter socks and keeping chaeto and copepods? Would the GFOs remove nutrients that the copepods/chaeto needs?

 

[Aquavaj]

IMO I think it is a bit overkill to start with that much equipment, especially when you're not too sure what they do or if you're really going to need them. I say start off with the basics, a skimmer rated for tank size, heater, ato, carbon in a bag and go from there. Too many equipment just complicates things and can seriously screw up your water parameters if you don't know what you're doing.

 

[Subsea]

Additionally, is it possible to run a:
GFO and Carbon Dual Reactor with Biopellets in filter socks and keeping chaeto and copepods? Would the GFOs remove nutrients that the copepods/chaeto needs?

All coral, algae and macro need nitrogen & phosphorus to grow. I do not concur that phosphate removal resins are necessary to operate a reef. IMO, low phosphate contributes more problems than high phosphate. Copepods & amphipods eat both detritus and algae. Your filter socks will remove food for the micro inverts in your refugium. Your biopellets will grow bacteria in a ultra low nutrient system which requires powerful protein skimming to remove.

You are going in a direction that I can not help you with. Of course, it is possible to add every gizmo you mentioned in your first post. Since you have already decided, have fun with it.

 

[Subsea]

Thanks for your reply! I decided to get a 160 gallon tank because I read that it is easier to maintain (although more costly) than smaller tanks. I've had my 16 and 32 gallon tanks for a decade now, so I think it's okay.
I decided not to get the Biopellets and the reactor as well as the algae scrubber and instead grow some Cheato inside the refugium. I also decided to get some copepods. So to my knowledge, Copepods I can put it into my refuge and help with lowering nutrients. I have a few questions... again.
1. What does harvesting mean? Do you take some from your refuge and put them into the main tank for fish to eat?
2. Do I need to feed them? If so, what (links please)

There are many more links. Just google it.

https://www.algaebarn.com/shop/live...3xC8XsVSXTnNkulnjCJeOh2DiEtTY2xEaAmchEALw_wcB


TIGRIOPUS CALIFORNICUS
Packed with omega-3 fatty and amino acids, Tigriopus copepods make a nutritious meal for even the pickiest of fish. These Pods inhabit the water column and jerk around when they move, making them an easy target for your critters. Females will lay hundreds of eggs during their life cycle. They add to your “Clean Up Crew” by consuming detritus, invasive algae, and phytoplankton in your aquarium.

TISBE BIMINIENSIS
These small and hardy tisbe copepods tend to inhabit the cracks and crevasses of live rock and macroalgae. Hiding helps them to maintain their population in marine aquaria. Their nocturnal nature makes them a sustainable food source in your tank and keeps your fish entertained and “on the hunt”. Tisbe copepods make for a highly nutritious treat for your fish, while adding to your “Clean Up Crew” by consuming detritus, phytoplankton and invasive algae in your aquarium. Think of these guys as the smallest mouths in your food chain.

APOCYCLOPS PANAMENSIS
These hardy copepods are slightly larger than Tisbe pods and slightly smaller than Tigriopus copepods. This intermediate size makes them a healthy live snack for your finicky fish and coral. Apocyclops copepods are extremely nutritious with a very high amino acid and protein content. Apocyclops copepods contain high amounts of Astaxanthin which can enhance and brighten the colors of your fish and coral. These warm water copepods reproduce extremely quickly by laying eggs every 4-6 days, about twice the rate of Tisbe and Tigriopus! Apocyclops copepods feed on phytoplankton, fish waste, and other detritus in your tank, making them a critical part of any clean-up crew.

As juveniles, Apocyclops copepods are benthic, staying hidden in the rockwork, macroalgae, and glass in your aquarium. As Apocyclops copepods mature into adults, they lay eggs before becoming pelagic and making their way into the water column. Once in the water column, they provide a sustainable and nutritious live food source for your fish and corals.

PLEASE NOTE: 5280 Pods contains a range of juvenile to adult copepods. Juvenile copepods are difficult to see with the naked eye upon arrival, but are best for establishing sustainable copepod populations. This is because livestock do not consume the copepods immediately after you add them into your tank!


Harvesting macro from refugium allows it to be either exported are feed to herbivore fish as nutrient recycling. Pods in refugium will get sucked into pumps and feed to tank, some make it thru whole. Also, larvae from snails and worms feed filter feeders which include coral.

Dissolved organic carbons are a byproduct of all photosynthetic organisms. Ken Felderman research on carbon dosing compares efficiency of DOC removal techniques

Protein Skimming removes at best 35% of DOC
GAC removes 65% of DOC
MATURE BIOFILTER removes 50% of DOC as food to grow.

https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/2/aafeature1

 

[Maxx Yung]

Thank you for your response! My sump will now only have Copepods, Chaeto, Protein Skimmer and a Carbon Reactor. Now about the lighting, I have a 71" tank, will 4 Hydra 56HDs cover that? And how high should the lights be above the water level? Thanks!

 

[Subsea]

Thank you for your response! My sump will now only have Copepods, Chaeto, Protein Skimmer and a Carbon Reactor. Now about the lighting, I have a 71" tank, will 4 Hydra 56HDs cover that? And how high should the lights be above the water level? Thanks!

I am not knowledgeable enough to assist you with differrent light vendors. In general, lights do not grow coral as much as food grows coral. In fact, some coral are NPS, non photosynthetic, like Chilli Coral and deep water gorgonions. After almost 50 years in this hobby addiction, I have found less light is better than more light. So, if you get more light than you need, make sure you can adjust intensity of output. Height adjustment is relative to the tank and the optic angles of the light array.

What will a carbon reactor do for your system? In other words, why have you chosen a carbon dosing method?

By the same logic, why the protein skimmer? Skimmate is 98% bacteria. Removing free swimming bacteria has serious long range consequences on live food production in your system biofilter. More than 60% of food on the reef is transported from one food web to another by the “microbial loop”. Removing those bacteria that transport that food, IMO, is detrimental to the long range stability of your system.

Yes, I said that skimmate was food for coral.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/2...m-on-top-with-30g-ecosystem-mud-macro.421526/

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/wet-salty-for-christmas-2017.428100/

 

[Maxx Yung]

The carbon is for clearer water and less odor... that's basically what I'm aiming for. On a video, it showed how reactors are much more effective than filter bags as 100% of the water will run through the carbon. For the skimmer, I've seen many people say that they run a skimmer along side with what I am doing, so I am only predicting that it will be okay for mine. Right now, I am debating whether to put the skimmer first and then the refuge (but then you said that) or skimmer later than refuge (but it might suck up the copepods)

 

[Maxx Yung]

And now, about the fish, I plan to have probably:
8+ Clownfish (I will only get even #s of Clowns otherwise they gang up on a solo one)
1 Blue Hippo
1 Lawnmower
1 Midas Blenny
2+ Firefish
1 Bicolor Blenny
1 Watchman Goby
1 Yellow Tang

Hopefully, they can thrive inside. Is the bio load too much; I don't really think so.
I will also have a Scarlet Shrimp and several hermits and snails.

As for corals, after a year, probably:
Sebae or BTA (Hard to keep, but I hope it'll accept the clownfishes.)
Torch Coral
Frog Spot Coral
Elegance Coral
Galaxea Coral
Green Star Polyps
Long Polyped Plate Coral

Many of them are quite aggressive, I will be a bit worried if I get more.

 

[Subsea]

And now, about the fish, I plan to have probably:
8+ Clownfish (I will only get even #s of Clowns otherwise they gang up on a solo one)
1 Blue Hippo
1 Lawnmower
1 Midas Blenny
2+ Firefish
1 Bicolor Blenny
1 Watchman Goby
1 Yellow Tang

Hopefully, they can thrive inside. Is the bio load too much; I don't really think so.
I will also have a Scarlet Shrimp and several hermits and snails.

As for corals, after a year, probably:
Sebae or BTA (Hard to keep, but I hope it'll accept the clownfishes.)
Torch Coral
Frog Spot Coral
Elegance Coral
Galaxea Coral
Green Star Polyps
Long Polyped Plate Coral

Many of them are quite aggressive, I will be a bit worried if I get more.

Bioload is low. With respect to Tangs, I would add them at the same time to prevent “resident aggression”

 

[Maxx Yung]

Alright, thank you so much for all your replies and answers! Personal thanks.
(Also forgot to type Flame Angelfish as one)

 

[PigFarmer]

Man if you start with that much filtering your gonna strip the water way to clean and clear the path for dinos to take over and spend $ you don't need to in the process.. I did the same thing when I started... Ditch the GFO and Bio pellets for sure.. I run a skimmer and a CW100 scrubber with lights backed off to 16hrs a a day with a heavy bioload on a 525xl and I still need to over feed the fish and corals to keep my po4 and no3 from getting to low.