Need help with algae control and ID

[Melinda01]

I have been having issues with algae for a couple months now. I have dosed vibrant 3 times in the past two weeks and the problem appears to be getting worse! I’ve ordered chemiclean because I have what for sure appears to be red slime on the rocks. However, I think there maybe more than one problem going on at once. There are hard bubbles on the overflow box, what appears to be hair algae on the pump, brown hairy algae on the sandbed, and the red slime as well as some tiny bubbles on the rocks! Could chemiclean kill all of this? Is there a chance of an ammonia spike if it does? Or is there a chance I have diano and cyano? I just did a 30% water change and the sand looks worse. Also can’t tell that the problem on the sand goes away with lights out. I’m at a loss.
I have multiple nassirus snails, red and blue hermits, fire, a cleaner and peppermint shrimp, two tuxedo urchins, and a long spine urchin. They can’t seen to keep up with this.
Parameters are
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
Ammonia 0
Phos 0.01
SG 1.025
Temp 77-78
Mg 1380
Ca 500+
Alk 9.3

 

[Sarah24!]

Hello,

You have a few different types of algae going on. I would run a uv sterilizer for about a month 24/7. ( opinions on this vary drastically. I have never had an alage problem but I turn my uv sterilizer on for about three weeks to a month. This kills and slows down the alage). You can not run it too long because it will also kill your good bacteria. That will slow the alage down.

I would also decrease your light intensity and time they they are on. There are different types of snails and critters you can buy that will also eat the alage. The chemiclean won’t kill everything, but I’d try changing your flow from your wave makers first. (Cyano grows in low flow dead spots) try getting more flow to that area. If it’s all over the entire tank, I’d use the chemiclean then. Your protein skimmer will go crazy and this is normal. It can go crazy for a few days to three weeks. It will be crazy until it filters all the chemiclean out.
In addition I use a uv sterilizer that has its own power head. You stick it in the sump and plug it in. It regulates its own flow through it to kill alage etc. there are some where you have to pipe into your main return line. I don’t suggest this because the flow is just to high. Honestly petsmart and petco sell some amazing uv sterilizer. I can’t remember the name of mine, but it has been just awesome.

Sarah

 

[Melinda01]

Hello,

You have a few different types of algae going on. I would run a uv sterilizer for about a month 24/7. ( opinions on this vary drastically. I have never had an alage problem but I turn my uv sterilizer on for about three weeks to a month. This kills and slows down the alage). You can not run it too long because it will also kill your good bacteria. That will slow the alage down.

I would also decrease your light intensity and time they they are on. There are different types of snails and critters you can buy that will also eat the alage. The chemiclean won’t kill everything, but I’d try changing your flow from your wave makers first. (Cyano grows in low flow dead spots) try getting more flow to that area. If it’s all over the entire tank, I’d use the chemiclean then. Your protein skimmer will go crazy and this is normal. It can go crazy for a few days to three weeks. It will be crazy until it filters all the chemiclean out.
In addition I use a uv sterilizer that has its own power head. You stick it in the sump and plug it in. It regulates its own flow through it to kill alage etc. there are some where you have to pipe into your main return line. I don’t suggest this because the flow is just to high. Honestly petsmart and petco sell some amazing uv sterilizer. I can’t remember the name of mine, but it has been just awesome.

Sarah

Thank you! I will look into getting a Uv sterilizer and cut the hours back on my lights for sure. I’m afraid to turn them down much for very long because I have some SPS. I was also thinking about trying to kill the lights and cover the tank for 3 days to see if that helps as well. I have vinegar set up on a pump at 15mL/day to try to keep the parameters in check. Should I stop that with chemiclean?

 

[Sarah24!]

Hello,

Depending on which lights you have, I would just run them in acclimatation mode for new fish or corals. It won’t harm your sps. I would only dose what the instructions say on the chemiclean box.

I have never tried the vinegar solution, but have been told once you start, you can’t stop it. I don’t know if this is true do to my lack of knowledge on it. Yet, it’s come from some very reliable sources. Personally I would hold off on going dark on your tank. Give the chemi clean a chance, use the uv sterilizer, and see what snails and critters you can add to eat the alage.

 

[rtparty]

How old is the tank? What kind of rock did you use? Are your nitrates and phosphates always that low?

I would be concerned that the brown snotty stuff is dinos. Water changes and Vibrant can make them worse.

A $15 toy microscope from Amazon can help you ID what you have. Without a proper ID, you're just throwing darts with a blind fold on.

 

[Melinda01]

Hello,

Depending on which lights you have, I would just run them in acclimatation mode for new fish or corals. It won’t harm your sps. I would only dose what the instructions say on the chemiclean box.

I have never tried the vinegar solution, but have been told once you start, you can’t stop it. I don’t know if this is true do to my lack of knowledge on it. Yet, it’s come from some very reliable sources. Personally I would hold off on going dark on your tank. Give the chemi clean a chance, use the uv sterilizer, and see what snails and critters you can add to eat the alage.

I have the radion xr15s so I can put them on acclimation mode. Seems the problem started when I put them on the tank from my standard lights that came with it. Not sure if it started with the lights or introducing new corals since both happened within a week of each other. I dipped the corals in Bayer before placing them in the tank so I would think that would’ve killed the algae if they had any Thanks for the help. I’ll try your advice.

 

[Melinda01]

How old is the tank? What kind of rock did you use? Are your nitrates and phosphates always that low?

I would be concerned that the brown snotty stuff is dinos. Water changes and Vibrant can make them worse.

A $15 toy microscope from Amazon can help you ID what you have. Without a proper ID, you're just throwing darts with a blind fold on.

The tank has been running 5 years. Was moved a couple years ago and the nitrates skyrocketed! Mega water changes and vinegar solved the issue. The past 6 months or so everything has been at or near zero.
As for the type of rock, I’m not sure. It was live rock that I bought from the LFS when I started the aquarium.
Is it possible to have both cyano and dino since it doesn’t all look the same?

 

[rtparty]

Yes it's possible. You could also have diatoms.

My experience has been having cyano and hair algae mixed. When I had dinos they basically dominated everything else except hair algae. When dinos disappeared, cyano started showing up again.

 

[Melinda01]

Yes it's possible. You could also have diatoms.

My experience has been having cyano and hair algae mixed. When I had dinos they basically dominated everything else except hair algae. When dinos disappeared, cyano started showing up again.

Ugh! I just want to get rid of all of it ;Shy I’m thinking about trying the chemiclean and see how much it gets rid of. Do you think the Uv sterilizer would help with the rest of the problem if it isn’t diano? I’ll also look into getting a microscope to find out for sure. Did you find a way to get rid of all your nuisance algae without return?

 

[Bayareareefer18]

Hello,

You have a few different types of algae going on. I would run a uv sterilizer for about a month 24/7. ( opinions on this vary drastically. I have never had an alage problem but I turn my uv sterilizer on for about three weeks to a month. This kills and slows down the alage). You can not run it too long because it will also kill your good bacteria. That will slow the alage down.

I would also decrease your light intensity and time they they are on. There are different types of snails and critters you can buy that will also eat the alage. The chemiclean won’t kill everything, but I’d try changing your flow from your wave makers first. (Cyano grows in low flow dead spots) try getting more flow to that area. If it’s all over the entire tank, I’d use the chemiclean then. Your protein skimmer will go crazy and this is normal. It can go crazy for a few days to three weeks. It will be crazy until it filters all the chemiclean out.
In addition I use a uv sterilizer that has its own power head. You stick it in the sump and plug it in. It regulates its own flow through it to kill alage etc. there are some where you have to pipe into your main return line. I don’t suggest this because the flow is just to high. Honestly petsmart and petco sell some amazing uv sterilizer. I can’t remember the name of mine, but it has been just awesome.

Sarah

I would have to respectfully disagree here. Your beneficial bacteria lives on surfaces such as rock, substrate, tank walls etc and is not predominantly in the water column.

Most of the uv sterilizer you but at lps really aren't all that effective at sterilizing but better served as a clarifier as most of them are underpowered.

What you do have to be cautious of with a uv sterilizer in a reef is depending on the output of the uv you could potentially kill micro fauna.

 

[Sarah24!]

I would have to respectfully disagree here. Your beneficial bacteria lives on surfaces such as rock, substrate, tank walls etc and is not predominantly in the water column.

Most of the uv sterilizer you but at lps really aren't all that effective at sterilizing but better served as a clarifier as most of them are underpowered.

What you do have to be cautious of with a uv sterilizer in a reef is depending on the output of the uv you could potentially kill micro fauna.

Hello,

On most uv sterilizers (Which you have to control the through your return pump) flow is huge and that’s correct. Yet, there are uv sterilizers they have their own power head and control their own flow on their own. They are specialized specifically to kill algae. Will it kill all of it, (toss a coin in the air and those are your chances, it’s different for everyone).
One thing that you didn’t mention is that the uv kills off the
Algae is the simply fact that uv is simply based on a simple equation of :
UV dose µWs/cm² = UV intensity µW/cm² x Exposure time (seconds).
By doing the math, the uv will actually kill the nucleic acids and by disrupting their DNA, leaving them unable to perform vital cellularfunctions.[1] UVGI is used in a variety of applications, such as food, air, and water purification.
So if we have the proper time of exposure, plus intensity, plus reflection, yes it will kill algae.
I have used one in my tank from the get go, and other than the cycling of the tank, I have yet to experience an algae outbreak. In addition, from the 8 aquariums I have volunteered at, every single one has used these. There are different methods and equations you have to consider. Life is different in every tank out there. Will this fix the op problem, possibly yes, could it not yes possibly. But one thing to consider is, it’s not going to hurt it. If she runs it 24/7 forever then yes, it will kill off beneficial bacteria which is not good. Yet in order for uv to be perfected, In many systems, redundancy in exposing microorganisms to UV is achieved by circulating the air or water repeatedly. This ensures multiple passes so that the UV is effective against the highest number of microorganisms and will irradiate resistant microorganisms more than once to break them down.

If she runs a uv sterilizer, in conjunction with certain fish that are algae eaters, turbo snails, and other critters that will attack the algae, why wouldn’t it work? What research have you done to show these methods are ineffective? I ask this very respectfully because I believe all of us would like to know. Is it possibly that by using this, it will kill a 100% of what we are after. No, that would be wrong to say simply because your dealing with phenomenon known as light and dark repair (photoreactivation and base excision repair, respectively), in which a cell can repair DNA that has been damaged by UV light. However, if we continue a repeated schedule, such as two weeks on and 6 weeks off, it will constantly be running the water column through the uv light. With other methods in place as well, it will reduce the chances of what the op is experiencing. One thing I know is that sometimes uv won’t work because of the age of the uv source has aged. There are three types of bulbs, most commonly used in our systems are the led versions, however there are some they are mercury based lamps, and pulsed xenon lamps. The latter two are fairly expensive, which is why the first is used often.
If you have more info on why these don’t work or experience I would really like to hear your info. (Please please know that what I have mentioned is based on my personal lab work with these devices working with local aquariums, when I was getting my undergraduate degree. In addition every tank is its own ecosystem, and some things may or simply may not work. But I really hope you share more information with us, because I think we would all like to know.

 

[Melinda01]

Hello,

On most uv sterilizers (Which you have to control the through your return pump) flow is huge and that’s correct. Yet, there are uv sterilizers they have their own power head and control their own flow on their own. They are specialized specifically to kill algae. Will it kill all of it, (toss a coin in the air and those are your chances, it’s different for everyone).
One thing that you didn’t mention is that the uv kills off the
Algae is the simply fact that uv is simply based on a simple equation of :
UV dose µWs/cm² = UV intensity µW/cm² x Exposure time (seconds).
By doing the math, the uv will actually kill the nucleic acids and by disrupting their DNA, leaving them unable to perform vital cellularfunctions.[1] UVGI is used in a variety of applications, such as food, air, and water purification.
So if we have the proper time of exposure, plus intensity, plus reflection, yes it will kill algae.
I have used one in my tank from the get go, and other than the cycling of the tank, I have yet to experience an algae outbreak. In addition, from the 8 aquariums I have volunteered at, every single one has used these. There are different methods and equations you have to consider. Life is different in every tank out there. Will this fix the op problem, possibly yes, could it not yes possibly. But one thing to consider is, it’s not going to hurt it. If she runs it 24/7 forever then yes, it will kill off beneficial bacteria which is not good. Yet in order for uv to be perfected, In many systems, redundancy in exposing microorganisms to UV is achieved by circulating the air or water repeatedly. This ensures multiple passes so that the UV is effective against the highest number of microorganisms and will irradiate resistant microorganisms more than once to break them down.

If she runs a uv sterilizer, in conjunction with certain fish that are algae eaters, turbo snails, and other critters that will attack the algae, why wouldn’t it work? What research have you done to show these methods are ineffective? I ask this very respectfully because I believe all of us would like to know. Is it possibly that by using this, it will kill a 100% of what we are after. No, that would be wrong to say simply because your dealing with phenomenon known as light and dark repair (photoreactivation and base excision repair, respectively), in which a cell can repair DNA that has been damaged by UV light. However, if we continue a repeated schedule, such as two weeks on and 6 weeks off, it will constantly be running the water column through the uv light. With other methods in place as well, it will reduce the chances of what the op is experiencing. One thing I know is that sometimes uv won’t work because of the age of the uv source has aged. There are three types of bulbs, most commonly used in our systems are the led versions, however there are some they are mercury based lamps, and pulsed xenon lamps. The latter two are fairly expensive, which is why the first is used often.
If you have more info on why these don’t work or experience I would really like to hear your info. (Please please know that what I have mentioned is based on my personal lab work with these devices working with local aquariums, when I was getting my undergraduate degree. In addition every tank is its own ecosystem, and some things may or simply may not work. But I really hope you share more information with us, because I think we would all like to know.

Honestly I think the problem is that multiple things happened to the tank at once. Since February I took all the fish out and many died due to a terrible velvet outbreak, I added the radions and gyres, added a few corals for the 1st time, and have been feeding like 1/8 cube of marine cousine (what I’ve always fed before but a smaller amount) daily to keep the shrimp, and cuc happy, as well as feeding a small combo of reef roids, reef chili, and coral frenzy a couple times a week to try to keep the corals happy and healthy. Problem is that I’m not sure if I should be feeding more or less because my parameters are all reading zero. Therefore it could be dianoflagullates but I’ve also read that if the other algae can uptake the nutrients causing false readings. I’ve never had this problem before even after I moved and the nitrates were through the roof so I have a hard time believing that it is due to over feeding. But I’ve read until I feel like my eyes are about to cross and can’t figure it out. I guess the best thing to do is get a microscope and go from there. I’m hoping that once I start introducing fish back into the tank it’ll get better.
I have also cut my lights back. The whites only run 6 hours a day or so and not at full intensity. I’ve turned the red and green all the way down to zero.
Sounds like a sterilizer and getting a microscope is about the only other option. I’m afraid to add to the clean up crew because according to what I’ve read they can introduce disease to the tank and should be quarentined as well. After what I’ve been through the past few months I’m afraid to take that chance.

 

[hafer12]

Opps

 

[Melinda01]

Opps

?

 

[Bayareareefer18]

Hello,

On most uv sterilizers (Which you have to control the through your return pump) flow is huge and that’s correct. Yet, there are uv sterilizers they have their own power head and control their own flow on their own. They are specialized specifically to kill algae. Will it kill all of it, (toss a coin in the air and those are your chances, it’s different for everyone).
One thing that you didn’t mention is that the uv kills off the
Algae is the simply fact that uv is simply based on a simple equation of :
UV dose µWs/cm² = UV intensity µW/cm² x Exposure time (seconds).
By doing the math, the uv will actually kill the nucleic acids and by disrupting their DNA, leaving them unable to perform vital cellularfunctions.[1] UVGI is used in a variety of applications, such as food, air, and water purification.
So if we have the proper time of exposure, plus intensity, plus reflection, yes it will kill algae.
I have used one in my tank from the get go, and other than the cycling of the tank, I have yet to experience an algae outbreak. In addition, from the 8 aquariums I have volunteered at, every single one has used these. There are different methods and equations you have to consider. Life is different in every tank out there. Will this fix the op problem, possibly yes, could it not yes possibly. But one thing to consider is, it’s not going to hurt it. If she runs it 24/7 forever then yes, it will kill off beneficial bacteria which is not good. Yet in order for uv to be perfected, In many systems, redundancy in exposing microorganisms to UV is achieved by circulating the air or water repeatedly. This ensures multiple passes so that the UV is effective against the highest number of microorganisms and will irradiate resistant microorganisms more than once to break them down.

If she runs a uv sterilizer, in conjunction with certain fish that are algae eaters, turbo snails, and other critters that will attack the algae, why wouldn’t it work? What research have you done to show these methods are ineffective? I ask this very respectfully because I believe all of us would like to know. Is it possibly that by using this, it will kill a 100% of what we are after. No, that would be wrong to say simply because your dealing with phenomenon known as light and dark repair (photoreactivation and base excision repair, respectively), in which a cell can repair DNA that has been damaged by UV light. However, if we continue a repeated schedule, such as two weeks on and 6 weeks off, it will constantly be running the water column through the uv light. With other methods in place as well, it will reduce the chances of what the op is experiencing. One thing I know is that sometimes uv won’t work because of the age of the uv source has aged. There are three types of bulbs, most commonly used in our systems are the led versions, however there are some they are mercury based lamps, and pulsed xenon lamps. The latter two are fairly expensive, which is why the first is used often.
If you have more info on why these don’t work or experience I would really like to hear your info. (Please please know that what I have mentioned is based on my personal lab work with these devices working with local aquariums, when I was getting my undergraduate degree. In addition every tank is its own ecosystem, and some things may or simply may not work. But I really hope you share more information with us, because I think we would all like to know.

Hi you obviously have done your homework and have a great understanding. I in no means meant any offense so hope none was taken.

I am a huge proponent for UV. I actually own a company where I install equipment for high end commercial and residential pools. Things like ORP controllers, UV, ozone, etc so I see the results everyday.

You are right UV in conjunction with other things is very affective. What I was getting at is is that I personally wouldn't be concerned with killing BB. As you stated the UV scrambles the DNA of bacteria and pathogens so they can not reproduce and die off after their life cycle. My opinion is that the bulk of your BB lives within the rockwork, substrate, filter media etc which is why it is typically recommended to turn them off for a period if your are dosing bacteria into the water column.

The UV will most definitely kill off your free floating algae spores so with a clean up crew physically removing algae it is a great combination.

Where most go wrong with UV, is as you said, exceeding effective flow rates. There are we quality sterilizers out there that can handle the dull flow of return pumps but they come with a price tag. Also, like I said, if you are not careful you could potentially kill your micro fauna. Most of these larger sterilizers have different flow recommendations for reef compared to fowlr tanks and freshwater

My opinion is definitely a thumbs up for UV. Hey if I can sanitize 80,000 gallons with one why not a few hundred gallons

Thanks for the info