Need help with diagnosis.

[lagatbezan]

I have had this queen angel in qt for the past 19 days. It's been through an initial formalin dip, two rounds of GC and been in cp for the past 17 days at 50mg/g from diamondback.
Not sure what's going on but I still see the fish flashing occasionally and see some spots on it which I'm not sure if they are ich, velvet or maybe lympo but I do know that I have some lympo on its tail.
The fish has been breathing heavy for the past week or so as well. Something definitely bothering it, I'm just not sure at this point what.
I have attached 3 video. Fist one is while the fish is in qt. The other two in an isolation box for better view.
Please pay attention to its right fin, top of the fin and back bottom fin right side.



#reefsquad

 

[deedubz]

Looks like some lympho to me. Has the fish been given a freshwater dip to rule out flukes?

 

[deedubz]

I see that you did formalin and gc but I've been blessed with prazi resistant flukes a couple of times. Also, I think a second formalin dip and transfer to clean qt is required for the eggs. I could be wrong there, though, as I've never used formalin myself

 

[Sarah24!]

Hello,

I know this may sound different, but do you have a local aquarium? If so they have special fish vets usually on shift that could either diagnose it quickly, and or tell you which medication to use. Usually with salt water fish time is not on our side, but from my experience it looks like lympho, yet I can’t say 100%. It’s hard for me to be 100% from the video.

For what it’s worth I really really hope you figure it out and the fish recovers 100%, it’s a gorgeous angel fish.

Sarah

 

[lagatbezan]

I have done fw dip twice and nothing showed. Last one was last week.
I'm gonna do another one tonight and transfer into a new qt just not sure if I should continue with cp or need to change to hypo or copper. Cp should have knocked out ich or velvet by now!

 

[deedubz]

I have done fw dip twice and nothing showed. Last one was last week.
I'm gonna do another one tonight and transfer into a new qt just not sure if I should continue with cp or need to change to hypo or copper. Cp should have knocked out ich or velvet by now!

Maybe @Humblefish @melypr1985 @Big G or @4FordFamily can chime in. I've never used CP.

 

[Big G]

Treatment period for CP is 30 continuous days at 40 mg/g for prophylactic treatment; same period at 60 mg/g for active infections.

 

[lagatbezan]

Treatment period for CP is 30 continuous days at 40 mg/g for prophylactic treatment; same period at 60 mg/g for active infections.

Thanks for the reply.
I was under the impression that 14 days in cp would be enough to eradicate both velvet and ich and that the fish can be transferred to a fresh qt after that which was my plan for this weekend. But looks like cp is not working if what I'm seeing on the fish is in fact velvet or ich. Do you believe I'm dealing with ich or velvet from the videos?
Here is a better video:
Note the spots on the right fin and spots on the bottom of streamers (blue part of the body)

 

[Big G]

I'm leaning you still have a few velvet parasites attacking your fish. Takes awhile for the CP to kill off the various stages of the parasite. The good thing is the number is decreasing instead of increasing. Remember the spots are not the parasites, but the wound left after the parasite has dropped off, and are still probably irritating the fish where ever they were attached. Keep counting and comparing. I'll bet you will see fewer and fewer as the days pass. The 14 day thing is usually used as an early, but a bit risky, take out of copper treatment. Only recommend that if the fish is copper sensitive and is at risk.
Beautiful fish you have there.

~ Gary

 

[4FordFamily]

All I see on that fish is lymph, which is quite common in angels and butterflies. I don’t have any experience at all with CP due to its difficulty to find in pure form without a script.

 

[lagatbezan]

Thanks for the replies. It's just weird since the fish was doing great till last week. I was just treating prophylacticly. But for the last week it's breathing has increased dromatically and is flashing violently. Hate to lose it.
I did a 5 min fw dip and nothing came off so ruling out flukes.
Doing a 40min formalin bath as we speak and going to go into another new 10g tank with .61g of cp added to it (roughly 9g of water in it and last batch of my cp ). Thinking of dropping the sg to 1.009 as well. Suggestions?
I have coppersafe as well but reluctant to use it since I read about the concentration being off and the need of a Hanna test kit which is on backorder.
Just not sure anymore

 

[Sarah24!]

All I see on that fish is lymph, which is quite common in angels and butterflies. I don’t have any experience at all with CP due to its difficulty to find in pure form without a script.

Good evening,

As 4FordFamily has mentioned, this is a very common and sometimes very hard to get rid of. I’m sure there are cases where it’s been easy, and others extremely hard. Sometimes the medicine you need, that will save your precious fish can only be written as a prescription. This was one of the reasons I was hoping you had a local aquarium. Some of the marine biologist or fish vets, can get you the medication you need. These can only come from specialized people like this who work and care for all the fish in the center. It may be to your benefit to call them and ask to see what they suggest and, or can do to help you.

 

[4FordFamily]

Thanks for the replies. It's just weird since the fish was doing great till last week. I was just treating prophylacticly. But for the last week it's breathing has increased dromatically and is flashing violently. Hate to lose it.
I did a 5 min fw dip and nothing came off so ruling out flukes.
Doing a 40min formalin bath as we speak and going to go into another new 10g tank with .61g of cp added to it (roughly 9g of water in it and last batch of my cp ). Thinking of dropping the sg to 1.009 as well. Suggestions?
I have coppersafe as well but reluctant to use it since I read about the concentration being off and the need of a Hanna test kit which is on backorder.
Just not sure anymore

Flashing isn’t likely lymph, perhaps you have flukes, as copper nor CP kill most types. When I’ve suspected flukes during copper, I give my fish prazipro baths. I know it doesn’t eradicate but done every 5 days or so will at least keep the flukes from taking over until after CP or Copper for full 30 days has lapsed and you can dose it in to the water column.

 

[deedubz]

Thanks for the replies. It's just weird since the fish was doing great till last week. I was just treating prophylacticly. But for the last week it's breathing has increased dromatically and is flashing violently. Hate to lose it.
I did a 5 min fw dip and nothing came off so ruling out flukes.
Doing a 40min formalin bath as we speak and going to go into another new 10g tank with .61g of cp added to it (roughly 9g of water in it and last batch of my cp ). Thinking of dropping the sg to 1.009 as well. Suggestions?
I have coppersafe as well but reluctant to use it since I read about the concentration being off and the need of a Hanna test kit which is on backorder.
Just not sure anymore

If you have a batch number for the coppersafe I can cross reference it with mine. I had two bottles from the same batch that I bought several weeks apart and dosage was identical. If it happens to be the same, I can help with dosage..If that's ultimately the route you go.

 

[lagatbezan]

Good evening,

As 4FordFamily has mentioned, this is a very common and sometimes very hard to get rid of. I’m sure there are cases where it’s been easy, and others extremely hard. Sometimes the medicine you need, that will save your precious fish can only be written as a prescription. This was one of the reasons I was hoping you had a local aquarium. Some of the marine biologist or fish vets, can get you the medication you need. These can only come from specialized people like this who work and care for all the fish in the center. It may be to your benefit to call them and ask to see what they suggest and, or can do to help you.

Thanks for the reply but unfortunately that's not an option since I don't have anyone that can help me with it except all the great people here in this forum.

Flashing isn’t likely lymph, perhaps you have flukes, as copper nor CP kill most types. When I’ve suspected flukes during copper, I give my fish prazipro baths. I know it doesn’t eradicate but done every 5 days or so will at least keep the flukes from taking over until after CP or Copper for full 30 days has lapsed and you can dose it in to the water column.

Besides the two rounds of general cure i have done 3 rounds of formalin so far. The last one being tonight and the previous one 5 days ago.
3 freshwater dips have shown no signs of flukes either. I would imagine any flukes would have been toast by now.
Here is my time line of my treatment:

 

[lagatbezan]

If you have a batch number for the coppersafe I can cross reference it with mine. I had two bottles from the same batch that I bought several weeks apart and dosage was identical. If it happens to be the same, I can help with dosage..If that's ultimately the route you go.

Thank you so much. That would be great. Copper is my last resort.

 

[deedubz]

Thank you so much. That would be great. Copper is my last resort.

 

[deedubz]

Appears we have a match. Sooo..
I dosed 3 qts.. 29g, 29g, and 20g.
29g with ~28g water got 30ml which was 1.07ml per gallon. That resulted in 2.07ppm
29g#2 with ~28g got 25ml which was .89ml per gallon. That resulted in 1.81ppm
20g with ~18g got 16ml which was .88ml per gallon. That resulted in 1.79ppm

Ok, I somehow read your number wrong.

 

[deedubz]

Regardless, that may be a good starting point. I'd still test with whatever means possible while ramping up if you do end up using copper.

 

[Sarah24!]

Hello,

Sorry I was just trying to help you, with what I have had experience with. I would feel horrible if I knew something that could possible save your fish, and I didn’t tell you, and it perishes. Plus like me if I lose one of my fish it really makes me sad. I only wanted to help.