Yea a lot of manufactures don't release hard numbers because that gives the customer something for comparison to other fixtures. It's marketing and every business that wants to stay in business will manipulate its language to seem the most appealing. They most likely wish to avoid that because even if you create a light that has the most PAR a year later another light will take its place and sales would cease. They instead highlight what Kessil has and dose well.
Need LED suggestions :)
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Yea a lot of manufactures don't release hard numbers because that gives the customer something for comparison to other fixtures. It's marketing and every business that wants to stay in business will manipulate its language to seem the most appealing. They most likely wish to avoid that because even if you create a light that has the most PAR a year later another light will take its place and sales would cease. They instead highlight what Kessil has and dose well.
bingo. Thus the points I brought up earlier on intensity amounts.
pretty basic stuff sadly.
4 tubes or 8?
I never disagreed, I'm just saying that Kessil has something the others do not have and they market the fixture around that, not PAR numbers. All LED fixtures today are basically able to handle even the highest intensity damands so it's all about those other features that separates the lights.
When we have only MH, VHOs, and T5s and Sanjay we all knew exactly what you needed. Radium bulb, large centered reflector, M80 ballasts, VHO T12s with over driven ballasts. Now it's different. Do you want shimmer, how much control do you want, how much are you willing to spend, WiFi control, and on and on. There has to be 100x's more choices now than there was then. 15 years ago PAR number are how you choose a lighting system, not today. Every fixture can create enough PAR so it isn't the factor today it was then. PAR was all we cared about, now it doesn't really matter anymore. Today it's spectrum, spread, control, color blending, shadows, and appearance. 15 years you didn't care what the system looked like you just had to make sure it was as powerful as possible and hide it in a 4' tall canopy.
I hope you know that wasnt pointed. Your always good to talk to. You may not notice but when the convo is mellow and its an exchange of ideas and not just bickering a lot of people look at it and good info is spread., its why I present my data and info the way I do. in the upper left hand of the thread you can see that folks are watching.
the pont there was I want x par, how many tubes do I use? in led there's no comparable OR there's NO data. that's a bit deceiving. But yea thats also marketing in america. MINE IS BEST!!!!(buyer beware results may not be typical)
the shimmer?
Not exactly true, Brand yes there's often a full line. But my lights all give about four times the amount of light yours do.(ap700) I did the research as I wanted to be able to play with that high par, AND becasue too much shimmer makes me nuts, I wanted enough power to be able to pull the lenses for spread and reduce shimmer and keep the higher par numbers I want to experiment with.
Dont get me wrong I like some shimmer, but its because I like the sun and arc lamps so I;m jaded and sculpt my own look in the tank. But I was lucky, Ive work in lighting so it only took me a little while to figure this out..
The biggest fault in just about all LED fixtures is there is too much control, most don't know what or how to get what they need for the color and growth they want.
I used a PAR meter to set up my lights and never had an issue or had to question my settings, ever. However PAR meters are expensive especially when you only need to use it once or twice. That's why I understand the need for an alternative.
I don't need three times more light, I'm not even close to 100% and if I where to add more light I would certainly fry some coral. Too much shimmer will make your eyes go nuts however you can do things to reduce the effect to make it more pleasing if needed. I don't the AP700 is quite pleasant. There are also the diffusers that do work.
The only reason I'm here is to learn and maybe a little debate here and there, lol. This is all part of the progression.
I used a PAR meter to set up my lights and never had an issue or had to question my settings, ever. However PAR meters are expensive especially when you only need to use it once or twice. That's why I understand the need for an alternative.
I don't need three times more light, I'm not even close to 100% and if I where to add more light I would certainly fry some coral. Too much shimmer will make your eyes go nuts however you can do things to reduce the effect to make it more pleasing if needed. I don't the AP700 is quite pleasant. There are also the diffusers that do work.
The only reason I'm here is to learn and maybe a little debate here and there, lol. This is all part of the progression.
mcarroll
10K Club member
What? You're trying to redefine lux now?
I mean it's-America-do-what-you-want, but if you're just going to arbitrarily define terms to suite you and mischaracterize what folks say along the way, you're heading for the ignore list.
amen.
the only reason a radion ai sol mars etc have that much power is because you can put it on any tank with any depth as high over the tank as you need too and then adjust its intensity.
OR they could make 5 fixtures with different intensities. a dimmer is much easier.
If you could efficiently dim a 1000w mh to 500 par at 12in over a tank we would.
And no. esp when Im tired of saying over and over its not the same.
and if helping folks choose a light to grow coral and set it without burning stuff or browsing it with a scientifically proven tool is a crusade then ok.
What? You're trying to redefine lux now?
I mean it's-America-do-what-you-want, but if you're just going to arbitrarily define terms to suite you and mischaracterize what folks say along the way, you're heading for the ignore list.
You promise?
