Need some help or advice...Fighting AEFW and no polyl extension

[Vmacisback]

To keep it simple Ive been battling AEFW with Bayer dips, once i think ive got them all weeks later i see bite marks am=nd repeat the dip process to all my sps corals. THis last time the AEFW were small and didnt look like adults, which i am hoping some eggs hatched and i eradicated them for good, but ive never really been that lucky. With the recent round of dips and plucking the corals off the rocks my sps seem pretty unhappy. Most of them show little to no polyp ext. after being glued back into place even after a week or so. This confuses me because even when they had AEFW on them there showed great PE. If someone could lend some advice itd be helpful. Thanks, ill list my most recent parameters below.

250G tank
CAL: 400ppm, slowly trying to bring it up
Phos: 0
ALK: 7.7-8.0
Mg: 1500
Nitrate: 0

Dosing acro power, as well as Fuel. Running Ecoback since the start of the tank as well as GFO.

 

[nova65ss]

How many dips and how often were you doing them?

 

[Zippy]

How many dips and how often were you doing them?

1+, gotta dip at least weekly for 4-5 times at the minimum. Also, if any living acro encrust is left behind on the rocks you will never win.

 

[ronnie]

I dipped every six days for 54-60 days. 10ml per cup for 10 minutes. Baste as they sit.

 

[ritter6788]

Here is what I did to get them out of my tank,

Set up QT tank, cut frags from display (no rock, plugs or dead skeletons so eggs can't be transferred). Dipped frags in Bayer (20ml/cup, less won't kill aefw). Removed ALL acro from the tank even scraps. Left display acro free for 6 weeks. Repeat process as I added acros back to the display. Got rid of red bugs and aefw at the same time.

 

[Vmacisback]

Here is what I did to get them out of my tank,

Set up QT tank, cut frags from display (no rock, plugs or dead skeletons so eggs can't be transferred). Dipped frags in Bayer (20ml/cup, less won't kill aefw). Removed ALL acro from the tank even scraps. Left display acro free for 6 weeks. Repeat process as I added acros back to the display. Got rid of red bugs and aefw at the same time.

What did your acros look like during this period? Did they have PE after you dipped them?

Ive done a lot of dips over the course of a couple months and I think I am getting the better of the AEFW at this point. My acros only really show PE at night and I cant tell if this is because of the low nutrients in the tank or all the dipping. Either way When I did have aefw I had better polyp extension that this, this is the part I dont get. As soon as I started fighting the problem my acros look upset

 

[ritter6788]

What did your acros look like during this period? Did they have PE after you dipped them?

Ive done a lot of dips over the course of a couple months and I think I am getting the better of the AEFW at this point. My acros only really show PE at night and I cant tell if this is because of the low nutrients in the tank or all the dipping. Either way When I did have aefw I had better polyp extension that this, this is the part I dont get. As soon as I started fighting the problem my acros look upset

My acros had PE almost immediately after the dip. I had a bad infestation of aefw and red bugs so my acros were pretty beat up and PE was poor until the dips. Bayer is very gentle on corals and they usually don't show any sign of stress after a dip.

What are you doing to the tank to make it low nutrient? It may be adding more stress.

Are you using the correct Bayer?

 

[NeverlosT]

The "fallow DT" method needs to come with a serious disclaimer that was mentioned above, if there is ANY acro left in your DT, a small bit that encrusted, a tip that broke off and settled to the bottom when you were in there removing the colonies, you will likely not eradicate the pest and there will be a lot of work done for nothing. I would go so far as to disassemble your rockwork and bake it in trashcans with no light while the acros are in the DT on the dip regiment.

Those who do succeed in eradicating AEFW by removing all of their DT acros, in my opinion, did so with diligence in QT and dipping, and luck in getting ALL acro out of the tank.

In my experience, the dipping did not result in poor polyp extension unless the dip was way too strong or they were in there for way too long. I'd check the other parameters.

 

[Vmacisback]

My acros had PE almost immediately after the dip. I had a bad infestation of aefw and red bugs so my acros were pretty beat up and PE was poor until the dips. Bayer is very gentle on corals and they usually don't show any sign of stress after a dip.

What are you doing to the tank to make it low nutrient? It may be adding more stress.

Are you using the correct Bayer?

yes ive been using bayer for a couple years now and it works well and is easy on the corals which is why I am a bit stunned at whats going on. To answer your question I have been running biopellets and using GFO from the get go starting my tank. Ive never really run into a stretch where there are no nutrients for a long period. I just got over a long fallow period fighting ICH and now AEFW is rearing its head. My most recent water tests showed no Po4 or Nitrate. I still daily dose acropower and fuel 2x per week. I also dose Zeobak to fuel the pellets. Not to sure whats going on, its not like the corals are dying or RTN'ing they just dont show PE during the day. Not to sure where to go from here, i know i need to keep dipping to get rid of the pest but bayer is pretty darn good at getting rid of worms with 1-2 dips.

 

[Vmacisback]

The "fallow DT" method needs to come with a serious disclaimer that was mentioned above, if there is ANY acro left in your DT, a small bit that encrusted, a tip that broke off and settled to the bottom when you were in there removing the colonies, you will likely not eradicate the pest and there will be a lot of work done for nothing. I would go so far as to disassemble your rockwork and bake it in trashcans with no light while the acros are in the DT on the dip regiment.

Those who do succeed in eradicating AEFW by removing all of their DT acros, in my opinion, did so with diligence in QT and dipping, and luck in getting ALL acro out of the tank.

In my experience, the dipping did not result in poor polyp extension unless the dip was way too strong or they were in there for way too long. I'd check the other parameters.

I hear what your saying but if I took all 200lbs out of my tank how would my fish survive more or less anything. Thats a huge loss of bacteria and pretty much sounds like starting over with corals in a qt.

 

[ritter6788]

yes ive been using bayer for a couple years now and it works well and is easy on the corals which is why I am a bit stunned at whats going on. To answer your question I have been running biopellets and using GFO from the get go starting my tank. Ive never really run into a stretch where there are no nutrients for a long period. I just got over a long fallow period fighting ICH and now AEFW is rearing its head. My most recent water tests showed no Po4 or Nitrate. I still daily dose acropower and fuel 2x per week. I also dose Zeobak to fuel the pellets. Not to sure whats going on, its not like the corals are dying or RTN'ing they just dont show PE during the day. Not to sure where to go from here, i know i need to keep dipping to get rid of the pest but bayer is pretty darn good at getting rid of worms with 1-2 dips.

While your fighting aefw I would turn off the gfo, biopellets and stop doing anything other than alk, cal and mag. You're not really trying to do anything except get them pest free. Focus on keeping the tank stable as possible and take out any variables that aren't absolutely needed.

 

[ritter6788]

starting over with corals in a qt.

This is basically what your going to have to do if you want to rid the tank 100% of aefw. Really no other way. Eggs can be anywhere and even a small scrap of acro in the display will feed them. It sucks but it will be better in the long run rather than living with aefw.

 

[Vmacisback]

wow thats a real bummer especially when you consider that its a large tank with fish and a ton of coral, it really sounds like a deal breaker but these aefw are pretty much that. At this point with these logical answers i feel like stepping away from the hobby.

 

[Vmacisback]

This is basically what your going to have to do if you want to rid the tank 100% of aefw. Really no other way. Eggs can be anywhere and even a small scrap of acro in the display will feed them. It sucks but it will be better in the long run rather than living with aefw.

just so im clear on what your saying is my best option is to put all my corals in a qt and restart my display with new rock and sand. Continue to dip corals for 6 weeks and then add them back to my new display tank? or just take all the acros out for 6 weeks and dip them weekly and then add them back to my current setup? With the later dont i run the risk if putting acros back in the tank and there may be eggs attached to my rock work?

 

[jt17]

FWIW, I started getting better PE when I switched from biopellets to vinegar dosing. The quarantine does sound like a big hassle. Have you considered trying flatworm exit.

 

[ronnie]

FWIW, I started getting better PE when I switched from biopellets to vinegar dosing. The quarantine does sound like a big hassle. Have you considered trying flatworm exit.

Wrong type of flatworm. FWE does absolutely nothing to aefw.

 

[Pete polyp]

Ritter is one person you should listen to. He has gone through this and knows from experience exactly what it takes to get rid of them. I don't think starting completely over with the tank is a very good idea. But qt all the acro while dipping as directed will take care of the corals. As stated, removing all the rock to remove any leftover bits and bases of acro will be the only way to kill them off completely. Unless you can figure out another way to kill all remaining traces of acro. Maybe dipping the rock in something like hydrogen peroxide would kill them, I dunno. I'm not speaking based on personal experience because I have not had to deal with these nasty bugs. But I have done a lot of reading about what people try.

 

[ronnie]

I'm 1-1. Lost first fight with them when I had a fully encrusted 120g acro tank. Red planet was 12" long, a Mille the size of a volleyball, stag the size of a basketball, etc. I couldn't tear it down, so I tried living with them. It didn't work.

Second time I was lucky, as I had frags only and all were on the frag rack still. Took me two months of dipping, but I'm aefw free and the corals are responding nicely with much improved growth and color.

The only thing Ritter and I differ on is the dosage. He's doubling mine, but he didn't say how long he dipped. In my testing a few years ago, 20ml/cup was good enough to kill, but it also put some undo stress on several of my more delicate acros. 10ml per cup will kill 98% of them, and basting knocks the rest off as they are very very near death anyways. But I can dip my Hawkins echinata in there with no stress at all.

Here's a link to my first attempt: https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/ge...ra-acro-eating-flatworms-my-long-journey.html

 

[ritter6788]

just so im clear on what your saying is my best option is to put all my corals in a qt and restart my display with new rock and sand. Continue to dip corals for 6 weeks and then add them back to my new display tank? or just take all the acros out for 6 weeks and dip them weekly and then add them back to my current setup? With the later dont i run the risk if putting acros back in the tank and there may be eggs attached to my rock work?

You don't have to restart fully. I pulled my rocks out and cut/chiseled every piece of acro off and vacuumed the bottom to make sure no scraps where left. I put the rocks back in and even left non-acropora coral in the display.

Eggs don't attach to live coral flesh so if you remove any frag plugs, rock or dead skeleton before you dip you won't transfer the eggs to the QT tank.

It can be done but it's not the easiest/quickest chore. Here's my thread where I started battling them.

https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/member-tanks/71555-ritter6788s-75-gallon-19.html#post1775596

 

[ritter6788]

The only thing Ritter and I differ on is the dosage. He's doubling mine, but he didn't say how long he dipped. In my testing a few years ago, 20ml/cup was good enough to kill, but it also put some undo stress on several of my more delicate acros. 10ml per cup will kill 98% of them, and basting knocks the rest off as they are very very near death anyways. But I can dip my Hawkins echinata in there with no stress at all.

]

I leave them in there for up to 20 min at a time with no issues. I drop them in, swirl the dip a bit and walk away. No set time but 5-20 minutes seemed to work fine. I used a clear container so when held up to the light I could see the aefw. At 10ml/cup the aefw fells off but the larger ones still squirmed in the bottom of the container. At. 20ml/cup they fall dead instantly. I dipped my ORA Hawkins twice, a teal dragon colony and a red dragon frag in that dose with no harm done to them.

All these fell off one milli colony I dipped.

At 10ml/cup they still moved around, squirming and twitching but still alive. Might be a different strain of aefw that's more resilient. Possibly same as there seems to be a type of aefw that prefer smooth skinned acros and one that prefers millis.