Need some help, SPS won't thrive

[HM3105]

Hey all,

I have two systems, identical in every way (I believe) EXCEPT for the following

1. The SPS system uses a CalRX where the LPS uses Brightwell two part.
2. The SPS system has a larger fuge area with higher powered light.

Nitrates are high on both, at 20ppm (Salifert).

Do you all see anything on these ICP analysis that would explain why SPS in the SPS system are struggling vs. those in the LPS system which are growing?

The SPS in the SPS system started growing and generally doing fine than all of the sudden that changed and they started losing color and slowly wasting away. I dipped some of them thinking it was a pest but nothing came off. I don't have any fish that would be picking at them (two tangs and 3 damsels).

System volume is 160 gallons

Lighting is LEDs

I am just out of ideas.

 

[ycnibrc]

Are both tank start at the same time with same rock?

 

[schuby]

Let's focus on the SPS tank. Do you regularly test for Phosphate, Nitrate, and Alk? We're interested in knowing the trends of these three over time (testing at the same time-of-day is recommended for consistency). IME, large Alk swings seems to affect SPS the quickest, but they can also starve if phosphate goes to zero for some length of time.

 

[HM3105]

Are both tank start at the same time with same rock?

Yes, both started at the same time, same rock, same equipment (except skimmer, smaller skimmer on the LPS)

Let's focus on the SPS tank. Do you regularly test for Phosphate, Nitrate, and Alk? We're interested in knowing the trends of these three over time (testing at the same time-of-day is recommended for consistency). IME, large Alk swings seems to affect SPS the quickest, but they can also starve if phosphate goes to zero for some length of time.

I test alk about every day (I might skip a day once a week) but usually at the same time. It's consistently been around 8.5 - 9 in the SPS system and 8.2 - 8.5 in the LPS system.

Phosphate is consistent with the ICP, a bit high at around .04 ppm in the SPS and LPS. The ICP.

Nitrate has been hovering around 20-25 for a while.

I've not had a zero reading in either of these systems for a few months, at one point I hit zero nitrates but not phosphate.

 

[schuby]

How about some time-frames? How long has the SPS tank been running and how long have you had SPS in it? Since the SPS have been in the tank, have you made any lighting changes such as duration or intensity/color?

 

[bct15]

If you have a wide spread issue, it is likely either a pest, chemistry, lighting, flow, or fish nipping problem.

how long has the tank been running, what size, what lighting, and when was the last new addition?

 

[HM3105]

How about some time-frames? How long has the SPS tank been running and how long have you had SPS in it? Since the SPS have been in the tank, have you made any lighting changes such as duration or intensity/color?

If you have a wide spread issue, it is likely either a pest, chemistry, lighting, flow, or fish nipping problem.

how long has the tank been running, what size, what lighting, and when was the last new addition?

The SPS tank has been running for over a year. When I put the CalRX on about 9 months ago I went through a period of alk swings that killed all the SPS. I let it run without corals for about 2 months and reintroduced a few. They started showing growth and normal PE so I began slowly adding more back to the tank.

Over the past month the growth stopped and they're starting to pale out. They'll look completely normal one day and the next day RTN.

No changes to anything, I don't really change anything unless there is a reason for it. Trying to keep everything stable.

System volume is 160 gallons

Lighting is LEDs

I've added a few pieces every week or so. I've dipped them but haven't seen anything coming off.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Could be too much light and/or not enough fish poop with higher alk. 2 tangs and 3 damsels isn’t much of a bio load. There’s a lot more involved than just a no3/po4 test. Pics would really help. What lights are you running?

 

[schuby]

SPS corals are typically considered the most difficult to keep and they don't all behave exactly the same. If this is your first time, please have patience and expect some losses as you learn.

In my mixed tank, with a dozen or more growing SPS frags, my targets are 0.1 ppm for phosphate and 20 ppm for nitrate. I want to avoid zeroing out either one of them. Depending on your phosphate test, 0.04 ppm could be very close to zero. My phosphate test (Hanna ULR phosphate ppm) has an accuracy of +/- 0.02 ppm.

Has your phosphate been steady at 0.04 ppm and your nitrate been steady at 20 ppm for the last six months (the approximate time you've had current SPS in your tank)? You've mentioned that you consider both to be "high".

Are your new SPS experiencing RTN or are the established (1-2 months or more) SPS dying (fine one day, RTN the next)? SPS can be fairly hardy, but they can starve to death over time.

What do you use for nutrient export? (skimmer, macro-algae, ATS, GFO, carbon, carbon-dosing, water changes, ...)

 

[HM3105]

Could be too much light and/or not enough fish poop with higher alk. 2 tangs and 3 damsels isn’t much of a bio load. There’s a lot more involved than just a no3/po4 test. Pics would really help. What lights are you running?

Well it's not burnt tips and my nutrients are high enough it should compensate for the higher alk.

They're blackbox (ViparSpectra)

SPS corals are typically considered the most difficult to keep and they don't all behave exactly the same. If this is your first time, please have patience and expect some losses as you learn.

In my mixed tank, with a dozen or more growing SPS frags, my targets are 0.1 ppm for phosphate and 20 ppm for nitrate. I want to avoid zeroing out either one of them. Depending on your phosphate test, 0.04 ppm could be very close to zero. My phosphate test (Hanna ULR phosphate ppm) has an accuracy of +/- 0.02 ppm.

Has your phosphate been steady at 0.04 ppm and your nitrate been steady at 20 ppm for the last six months (the approximate time you've had current SPS in your tank)? You've mentioned that you consider both to be "high".

Are your new SPS experiencing RTN or are the established (1-2 months or more) SPS dying (fine one day, RTN the next)? SPS can be fairly hardy, but they can starve to death over time.

What do you use for nutrient export? (skimmer, macro-algae, ATS, GFO, carbon, carbon-dosing, water changes, ...)

I've not seen my phosphate dip below 0.03 or nitrates below 10 recently. I dose both of those as needed because of the low bio-load in that system.

The RTN has been a combination of both, it's not isolated to newer ones or older ones.

I've been keeping SPS for a bit, that what makes this so confusing. However, I'll note that the RTN episodes occur across all my tanks which is what led me to ask for help on the ICP results as I think it's something in my water but I don't know what else to check for.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Well it's not burnt tips and my nutrients are high enough it should compensate for the higher alk.

They're blackbox (ViparSpectra)



I've not seen my phosphate dip below 0.03 or nitrates below 10 recently. I dose both of those as needed because of the low bio-load in that system.

The RTN has been a combination of both, it's not isolated to newer ones or older ones.

I've been keeping SPS for a bit, that what makes this so confusing. However, I'll note that the RTN episodes occur across all my tanks which is what led me to ask for help on the ICP results as I think it's something in my water but I don't know what else to check for.

Never said it was burnt tips, but like I stated earlier, there’s more to it than just what your no3/po4 are reading. A lot of the new studies show acros prefer ammonia/ammonium over no3/po4. Are these colonies or frags that were frags that were growing and now are having issues. 0.03 po4 is really low for frags, especially with your higher alk. But if you don’t want to take my word for it how about red sea’s recommendation

Have you checked your par?

 

[HM3105]

Never said it was burnt tips, but like I stated earlier, there’s more to it than just what your no3/po4 are reading. A lot of the new studies show acros prefer ammonia/ammonium over no3/po4. Are these colonies or frags that were frags that were growing and now are having issues. 0.03 po4 is really low for frags, especially with your higher alk. But if you don’t want to take my word for it how about red sea’s recommendation

Have you checked your par?

Sorry I didn't mean to imply I didn't agree with you.

They're mostly frags being introduced back from my other system. I can always bump po4 up to those levels they just seem high but that's doesn't mean it's inappropriate to target those.

Do you have a link to the studies you're referencing? I'd like to read them.

I'll check my par and report back, what do you think I should target ?

 

[Dana Riddle]

A photo of the tank is worth a thousand words.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Sorry I didn't mean to imply I didn't agree with you.

They're mostly frags being introduced back from my other system. I can always bump po4 up to those levels they just seem high but that's doesn't mean it's inappropriate to target those.

Do you have a link to the studies you're referencing? I'd like to read them.

I'll check my par and report back, what do you think I should target ?

Led only 200-350 par is all you need.
I try to keep my alk 7.5-8.0
I’ll see what I can find. It’s been awhile since I researched it.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

A photo of the tank is worth a thousand words.

Maybe worth a million words

 

[ScottB]

Led only 200-350 par is all you need.
I try to keep my alk 7.5-8.0
I’ll see what I can find. It’s been awhile since I researched it.

Wow you keep some fuzzy acros. I have to wait till lights out before mine get that hairy. [Insert jealous emoji here]

Please tell me they are all millis. Pretty please.

 

[Dana Riddle]

@Chaswood79 You've got some really nice colonies. Since others are focusing on water quality, let us look at lighting. What wattage is the Viparspectra? Does it contain many red LEDs? How old is the fixture?

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Wow you keep some fuzzy acros. I have to wait till lights out before mine get that hairy. [Insert jealous emoji here]

Please tell me they are all millis. Pretty please.

No Millies. Just a bunch of hairy Tenuis and torts.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Mr @Dana Riddle is who I learned turning my skimmer OFF while the lights are ON from

 

[schuby]

Mr @Dana Riddle is who I learned turning my skimmer OFF while the lights are ON from

What purpose/benefit does this provide? I've never heard of this before.