Need some help using cupramine

[Mo_man]

Hey guys, so I have a pair of mocha storms that I found out have ich. Now I'm going to be treating them with cupramine. I did already did a post on here about cupramine but there are still some unanswered questions.
Btw here is how I plan on doing the treatment.

1)Slowly raise the copper level over a period of 4 days.
2). Maintain it at 0.5 ppm for 30 days
3) no filter, just some PVC piping and a circulation pump
Now the questions I have are these.

1) how much (percentage wise) of a water change do I do?
2) do I also do water changes daily?
3) after doing the water change I have to get the copper level back to the same correct?
4) will the momentary drop of the copper level (during the water change) affect the treatment? Any help would be appreciated as this is a little bit urgent to me.

Thabk you!!

Also I read the post @Humblefish wrote up and got most of my answers from there.

 

[Cassian]

I would go higher than 0.5 to kill it. I would do at least 1.75. I do 20% water changes once a week. Setup a small tank or bucket with a heater and bubbler and keep you some saltwater of matching salinity in that tank/bucket at all times. Dose the copper in that container to match the levels in your qt tank. Works like a charm. It also allows you to keep some water handy in case of an emergency WC. Just makes sure to refill your container and redose copper/readjust salinity each time you use some.

Hope this helps and best of luck!!

 

[Mo_man]

Hey Luke, thank you for the reply.

I should have clarified. I was reffering to 0.5 mg/L, idk if you're talking about 1.70 ppm?

Also, I have the salifer copper test kit, does anyone know if that reads in mg/L or ppm?

 

[Punchanello]

I don't know if a momentary drop in copper will be a problem but it's easy enough to avoid the problem altogether. Mix the copper in the new water to .5 then put it in.

I do a 40% water change a week in a 10 gallon tank. That's one salt bucket.

 

[Punchanello]

Hey Luke, thank you for the reply.

I should have clarified. I was reffering to 0.5 mg/L, idk if you're talking about 1.70 ppm?

Also, I have the salifer copper test kit, does anyone know if that reads in mg/L or ppm?

1.75 of cupramine will kill your fish for sure. Maybe another product could be dosed at that level.

 

[Mo_man]

I don't know if a momentary drop in copper will be a problem but it's easy enough to avoid the problem altogether. Mix the copper in the new water to .5 then put it in.

I do a 40% water change a week in a 10 gallon tank. That's one salt bucket.

I didnt think it would just wanted to hear some confirmation.

Another question question, do you have any filters running or anything like that? That's one of my concerns, if I only need to do it weekly, wont ammonia build up?

 

[Cassian]

Hey Luke, thank you for the reply.

I should have clarified. I was reffering to 0.5 mg/L, idk if you're talking about 1.70 ppm?

Also, I have the salifer copper test kit, does anyone know if that reads in mg/L or ppm?

Oh! Sorry for the confusion. Yes, 1.75 ppm

I do not know about the test kit. I use the cuppramine test kit

 

[LAReefer4Life]

You''ll need a simple HOB Filter, heater, 3 bottles of biospira, PVC piping, ammonia badge, and if you have the money get a cheap power head for extra surface flow.

Best test kit is the hanna checker but if you're in a pinch there is the seachem or salifert test kits are compatible.

.50ppm is the goal for 30 days raised over 3-4 day period administering 2 x daily both am/pm split.

If the tank has not cycled then mix up plenty of backup water ready for 50% water changes every day or every other day. Don't overfeed your fish while in QT as that will quickly spike the ammonia levels.

 

[John Robbins]

Hey Luke, thank you for the reply.

I should have clarified. I was reffering to 0.5 mg/L, idk if you're talking about 1.70 ppm?

Also, I have the salifer copper test kit, does anyone know if that reads in mg/L or ppm?

I noticed the confusion between ppm and mg/l in the above posts. FWIW, 1mg/l = 1ppm. They are the same. In the above example 1.70ppm is the same as 1.70mg/l
That being said, 1.7mg/l is -way- beyond a toxic dose for fish. Anything .8mg/l or higher can be more damaging than helpful. The therapeutic dose is .5mg/l so there is not a lot of room for error in the dosing. Make sure you are measuring the copper frequently during the whole process. If you are not super familiar with your copper test then it may be helpful to test it a few times and see if youre getting the same results as a safety.

 

[Punchanello]

I didnt think it would just wanted to hear some confirmation.

Another question question, do you have any filters running or anything like that? That's one of my concerns, if I only need to do it weekly, wont ammonia build up?

Well, I've run a QT successfully with only an air driven sponge filter and an airstone because oxygen depletes in copper. But the sponge filter was seeded for 3 weeks in the sump of my DT.

A hang on back filter works well combined with a powerhead or airstone.

If you have the change, I would also highly recommend the Hanna copper checker. I have been way more successful since I started using that.

 

[LAReefer4Life]

Well, I've run a QT successfully with only an air driven sponge filter and an airstone because oxygen depletes in copper. But the sponge filter was seeded for 3 weeks in the sump of my DT.

A hang on back filter works well combined with a powerhead or airstone. I would also keep some Seachem Prime on hand just in case of ammonia build up.

If you have the change, I would also highly recommend the Hanna copper checker. I have been way more successful since I started using that.

Do NOT combine prime with copper as it will have ill effects.

 

[Punchanello]

Do NOT combine prime with copper as it will have ill effects.

What he said ^
I forgot!

 

[Cassian]

Just curious, is there a reason everyone is recommending 0.5 ppm? I dose all of my fish to 1.75 ppm as per @HotRocks procedure

 

[HotRocks]

Just curious, is there a reason everyone is recommending 0.5 ppm? I dose all of my fish to 1.75 ppm as per @HotRocks procedure

If you are using chelated copper (copper power or coppersafe) the level is 1.75-2.25 range.

If you are using ionic copper (cupramine) the level should be .5ppm as its chemical makeup is different. Just to clarify.

 

[falconut]

Cupramine requires lower level than other forms of copper. They recommend 0.5, but to be safe I've always done around 0.45.

You're going to have a difficult time checking you levels using the salifert test kit, highly recommend getting the Hanna Checker for copper, it's about the only that will show you true level without guessing colors.

When you do water change, do add water without copper, use water with matched level of copper. From my understanding, any dip in copper level and you need to start the 30 days over.

For water change frequency, you'd need to monitor ammonia. For this you should getvtge Seachem ammonia alert badge, I believe all the other test kits don't read correctly when copper us present. It's just a little badge with a suction cup.

 

[Cassian]

If you are using chelated copper (copper power or coppersafe) the level is 1.75-2.25 range.

If you are using ionic copper (cupramine) the level should be .5ppm as its chemical makeup is different. Just to clarify.

Ah!! Thanks for the clarification @HotRocks I didn’t know they were different