Need Some Metal Halide Help...Please

SPSjunky

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I have a 6 foot 150 gallon aquarium with coralife aqualight pro over it.It has 3-250 watt metal halides. The middle halide sits directly over the plastic brage for the aquarium.I currently down run this bulb because i dont know if its safe or not. Do you guys think ill melt or damage it?My next question is that the glass shields that go under the metal halide bulbs have broke.I dropped them and while cleaning them one time.They were 1/8th inch tempered glass. I replaced them with 1/4 inch tempered glass they glasscages cut for me.Will the thicker glass cut down on how strong the light will be in the deeper part of the tank.Tank is full of mostly all sps colonies.Thanks in advance...
 
Are these single end or double end bulbs? I'm assuming double end. That glass shield blocks the uv that can burn corals, fish and you if you hang out under it. You can't just put regular glass in there.
 
That is correct, they are the double ended hqi bulbs. Hqi bulbs have to have a uv shield like you stated. I have expiremented and the heat from the bulds makes regular plate glass explode.Would a hqi bulbs directly over a plastic brace make it melt and does the thickness of the glass matter when it comes to uv shields?
 
You could try turning the light on and placing a thermometer on the brace?

I can't help with the glass thickness question. I was just making sure you didn't put regular glass over the bulbs. ;)
 
lol I have tried regular plate glass in it before but the light wasnt over the tank when i tried it.The distance between the uv shield and the plastic brace is exactly 4 inches.
 
That's too close to the brace. Even if it didn't melt it, it would cause it to warp and/or become brittle. I've seen people melt tank braces with incandescent light bulbs. Not worth the risk. However, if you're sing the third light you may be able to raise the fixture up some and still get the extra light with out melting anything.



Tank thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81000

LG P999 EaglesBlood 2.8, Trinity ELPmax
 
Thanks for the info dekerns, i believe you are correct about the brace melting. Im gonna see if i can get permission for the boss to see if i can hang the fixture from the ceiling.
 
+1 to dkearns - if he didn't say that, I was about to. ;)

The glass is "normal glass" I guess depending on what you mean by normal...there is no special UV blocking formulation. All glass will block UV, but you may need tempered glass to resist the heat. If you have not called Marineland's 800# yet, you should - they can tell you with authority.

Good luck!

-Matt

P.S. The glass in my old 36" Aqualight Advanced was .25" - can't be sure but I'd bet it was tempered too.
 
I don't feel life an eighth of an inch difference would reduce the brightness much. I'm positive that it will, however it's most likely so slight that it won't matter. The glass in my jbj viper was quarter inch tempered and it was only 150 Watts.



Tank thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81000

LG P999 EaglesBlood 2.8, Trinity ELPmax
 
I have had the same issue in the past. You could solve it by hanging the light fixture high enough that it doesn't melt or by going to lowes or home depot, buying a large piece of tile, and having it cut the width of the tank. Put it over the brace and it will safely absorb the heat. Should only cost you a few bucks.
 
The tile trick is a great idea too. Ive been wanting to upgrade and start running radiums instead of the 20k ushios that i have been but the challange has been convicing the boss to let me hang lights from the ceiling.This morning i cashed in my brownie points and got her to say ok to the idea. What do you guys think about 2-400 sunlight supply pendants running off a blue wave 7 ballast? Do you think that would be enough and have enough spread to cover the whole tank?How high would you mount them over the water?
 
The tile trick is a great idea too. Ive been wanting to upgrade and start running radiums instead of the 20k ushios that i have been but the challange has been convicing the boss to let me hang lights from the ceiling.This morning i cashed in my brownie points and got her to say ok to the idea. What do you guys think about 2-400 sunlight supply pendants running off a blue wave 7 ballast? Do you think that would be enough and have enough spread to cover the whole tank?How high would you mount them over the water?

Just FWIW I'm not sure I'd recommend spending on a whole new light setup that is not LED-based. I say this as a devotee of Radium halide lights too.

Beyond that, I do not think you would be happy with the coverage from only two pendants. Instead, I would suggest 3 reflectors running 250 watt Radiums but pick an HQI (magnetic type) ballast to get the most out of them - they'll run close to 300 watts as designed.

Consider LED's - for the price of one set of new bulbs or so you could build a GU10-format LED system similar to mine. (Check my blog posts here on R2R for some more info.)

-Matt
 
I have 3x 250w HQI over my 60" x18"x 23" (or so) 115 display. I also have 2x400w radiums over a 72"x24"x20" frag tank. The light output from the 400w setup is vastly superior to the double ended 250w setup and would be ideal for SPS - (even if mounted 24"+ over the water surface and even if the tank were significantly deeper). The 3x250 setup would can do sps in the top half of the smaller, but deeper tank. mounter 8" above the water surface.

If power and heat are not an issue, I would opt for the 2x400w over the 3x250 route.
 
Thankyou mcarroll and robert for your responses.What reflectors are you running the 400 watt radiums on and what is the spread on them. Do you think two of the lumenmax elite's will have enough spread to be suffecient for a 6 foot tank?I tried searching youtube for some videos of the lumenmax elites but came up empty.
 
I have the luminarc III large reflectors - I think they are 470mm x470mm x 270mm. I bough them used from a retailer with 48" wide tanks. Being that they are meant meant for a much wider tank, I had to adapt them with light baffles to reduce the spread - still killer light output - even mounted very high.

The info I think your looking for is here:
Product Review: Analyzing Reflectors: Lumenbrite III, Lumenmax Elite, Lumenmax, and Lumenarc III — Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and BlogHope this helps...
 
The Lumenbrite and Lumenmax elite are more suitable for tanks 3ft or less in width. They tend to provide a more focused coverage and higher peak values than the Lumenmax and Lumenarc reflectors. This can allow for better use in taller tanks, as more light can reach the bottom, or allow for higher placement of the lights thus reducing the heat dissipating in the water, or allow for higher light values to be obtained lower in the tank. This would allow the user to create a reef with a much lower rock profile. On shallower tanks 24" or less these reflectors would easily allow the user to move from a 400W lamp to a 250W lamp, resulting in savings in electrical costs.
 
Robert, Thankyou so much for your help.I believe now that two 400 watt metal halides in lumenmax elite reflectors on a electronic ballast should do the trick.Which ballast would you pick between the electronic blue wave 7 dual ballast or the galaxy dual ballast?
 
SPSJunky,

Since your tank is deep, but also skinny at 18" wide, I wouldn't be "in a hurry" to give short shrift to a 250 watt solution.

To begin with, 250w non-Radium DE's in dinky mini-reflectors are a wholly different proposition than 250 watt SE Radiums in real reflectors being run on HQI ballasts.

First, on straight wattage Radiums on HQI Ballasts run beyond the nominal rating - 270 watts or more per bulb in practice. It's a big difference if you see 250 watts side by side with 270+ watts. (Radium.de - just for reference check the HRI/T-Aquastar bulb stats.)

Second, you will get a much better spread - better should mean less spill in your context - from what's considered a full sized reflector.

Together, what this amounts to is more light to begin with and a greater percentage of the light making it into the tank - completely adequate for the tank depth in question. The disadvantage to this solution (if anything) is cost - of the third reflector and ballast and third bulb in the replacement cycle - but to me cost is out the window if you're considering halide in the first place. :)

FWIW, I really think the Radium bulbs are the biggest difference in robert's setups....though the better reflectors certainly make a big difference too. There's no reason that 250w Radiums wouldn't look just as much better in that setup vs the 250w HQI setup.

This does not address the coverage issue, however.

If you check out the advancedaquarist article linked in the post above, you will see that there is no reflector that gets around the point-source lighting that metal-halide is......the center is always most intense and the edges are always dim. There is a trade-off between how intense the hot spot is vs how dim the edge coverage is. I won't say that it's impossible to get adequate coverage with two 400 watt bulbs, but you may have a tough time IMO with the balancing act.

Depending on tank layout and what corals you ultimately choose, bleaching under the hot spots will be a real risk if you have to lower the reflectors enough to compensate for a lack of light at the edges. SPS at the perimeter not finding enough light to color up and grow well could be a risk if you end up having to raise the lights too much to avoid bleaching (not all corals can acclimate to the level of intensity you can have at the center). The reflectors are circular and the tank is rectangular of course, so light spill becomes a bigger factor the higher above the tank you go as well, wasting the extra wattage of the bigger bulbs. Getting reflectors that give more coverage also waste more light due to your relatively narrow (18") 150 gallon tank. Again, not necessarily insurmountable - especially depending on your tank layout - but running three reflectors will eliminate this concern almost completely. Over-lighting is almost an impossibility with the 130w less per bulb, while the overlap between bulbs provides more than adequate intensity at the interior lighting perimeters. If there was a reason that you *had* to mount the lights up higher, then the equation shifts decidedly in favor of 400w bulbs.

FWIW, I've seen 400 watt Radiums on electronic ballasts mounted in Coral Vue Lumen Bright reflectors mounted about three feet above an SPS system - the over-lighting issue is not made up. YMMV, but worth considering.

Some relevant stats that may be interesting.

3 x 250w + 4x96 = 1134 watts
2 x 400w + electronic ballasts = 800 watts
3 x 250w Radium + HQI ballasts = 810 watts

The watts here do make for a good apples-apples comparison, IME. First thing to notice is that no matter what there will be a reduction in light over the tank vs your current light, so a power savings will follow - over $100/year for a 10 hour lighting schedule. Second, with 250 watt bulbs and good reflectors you're putting down the same amount of light as the 400w solution, but in a way that's going to be a lot easier to manage and, overall, be more useful to your corals. (Unlike their other denominations, 400 watt Radiums are designed as power-savers, so are actually 360 watt bulbs.....electronic ballasts I believe will drive them to 400 watts in practice, giving a similar look to the 150 and 250 watt Radiums on HQI ballasts.)

At the end of the day, if you are going to make a change to running pendant lights there's not much harm in experimenting either way as I see it. If you're dissatisfied for some reason then it's a small amount of additional hassle to change it up and add (or sell off) one pendant.

You're sure that LED is off the table? ;-) Comparable GU10 LED setup: About $750 to build. (That's a skeleton fixture good for installation, similar to mine....finishing it for display or not is up to you and your tastes.) 410 watts - another 50% less power use vs your Aqualight, saving you $260/year. No - zero - heat transfer to your tank. (You won't need a chiller if you do need one now.) Also no bulb replacements, saving you about $250 every six months. This fixture will pay for itself the first year.

-Matt
 
Matts got some great points.

I don't run the radium HQI bulb in my 250w fixtures, maybe I should. He makes a good argument that with the radium bulb and decent reflectors the 3x250W solution would give you a more even light spread and less spill both because of the geometry of the reflectors and the closer proximity of the fixture to the tank, but then you may be back to your original issue with heat generation on the center brace.

The 400w solution on the other hand moves the heat from directly above the center brace (which I have as well) but means a higher mount to even out light distribution and means more spill due to the narrow dimension of the tank. Based on my experience with a high mount, I haven't found hot spots or perimeter light levels to be much of an issue. Also I personally like the higher mount for easy access under the lights to work. As Matt points out over-lighting with the 400s is definitely possible but as you can always move the light higher or add diffusers, I don't necessarily consider that a bad thing. I probably tend to raise and lower my lights more than most - it just depends on what I'm growing - the age of my bulbs, etc.

On a display tank - you would probably want to hide the reflectors anyway, which should block spill and reflector glare.

I run a newer model icecap ballast - nice crisp white-blue - not too blue. If you like blue, under-drive or get a dimable ballast but expect shorter bulb life. I assume it works the same way with the HQI bulbs.

I needed the lights and because ballasts and reflectors were very inexpensive I went with what I knew would work - if I had to pay full boat, I probably would have gone to LEDs. The spectrum, power and control are all there and the prices are getting to the point where its really hard to justify the alternatives.
 
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