Need Some RODI Advanced Help

[Forsaken77]

I'm relocating my 44 gallon Brute RODI reservoir to my fish room so I don't have to lug buckets. My rodi unit is in the basement, but I ran about 30 ft. of tubing to where the can will go. It will go from the RODI unit to the can with an auto shutoff and float drilled through the pail, like it is now. The auto shutoff will stay in the basement by the unit and the can has the 1/4" bulkhead/float for it to connect.

I want to use the can as my ATO reservoir also. So I need a gasketed bulkhead for 1/4" push connects so I can get the hosing through the pail.

Will THIS BULKHEAD work on a round surface? It has to have gaskets because it will be under water, unless someone has a better way to get the ato tubing through the pail? BRS only has dry push connect bulkheads to go through stands.

Also, I'm using a Spectrapure ato with peristaltic pump. Do I have to worry about water syphoning from the can, which is higher than the sump, with a peristaltic pump?

Last thing... Will having such a long run of tubing from the basement RODI unit cause any issues? About 30 ft.

Thanks

 

[Flippers4pups]

Standard bulkheads work with brutes.
If you are trying to run ice maker plastic line from the brute, you need a standard bulkhead and then a reducer to a threaded fitting for the plastic waterline.

 

[redfishbluefish]

I haven't seen him recently, but hope @AZDesertRat is still around....he could answer this question. I'm concerned about the run and rise of 30 foot of 1/4 inch tubing. Without calculating, the headloss will be very high. And my guess, if you're running this directly off your RO/DI, it's not good.

 

[K. Steven]

I think with that length of tubing you may need a permeate pump, depending on how much back pressure is applied. What if you configured your float valve in your reservoir vertically, so the bulkhead could come out of the lid and a 90 elbow to get the product water line horizontal leading to your RODI unit?

 

[Flippers4pups]

I haven't seen him recently, but hope @AZDesertRat is still around....he could answer this question. I'm concerned about the run and rise of 30 foot of 1/4 inch tubing. Without calculating, the headloss will be very high. And my guess, if you're running this directly off your RO/DI, it's not good.

Agreed. A RO/DI unit's out going pressure probably wouldn't push 30 feet vertical. If it did, it would be extremely slow.

Also, A can higher than a peristaltic pump could easily syphon through, especially if there is a significantly large amount of water in the can.

A better way would be to have a pump in the can at the same level as the sump and attached to a electronic float switch in the sump. The discharge line is left slightly above the sump water line to keep syphon from happening.

 

[redfishbluefish]

I would suggest doing a search....I put in "RO/DI head loss" along with posted by member = AZDesertRat and got a number of hits. HERE is but one.

 

[Flippers4pups]

I would suggest doing a search....I put in "RO/DI head loss" along with posted by member = AZDesertRat and got a number of hits. HERE is but one.

Very well put.

 

[Cory]

It will waste deion resin if its on a float. Unless you got one of those ro units that dont bleed tds after its shut off. Also you should instal a check valve so the water can only go one way.

 

[Forsaken77]

Agreed. A RO/DI unit's out going pressure probably wouldn't push 30 feet vertical. If it did, it would be extremely slow.

Also, A can higher than a peristaltic pump could easily syphon through, especially if there is a significantly large amount of water in the can.

A better way would be to have a pump in the can at the same level as the sump and attached to a electronic float switch in the sump. The discharge line is left slightly above the sump water line to keep syphon from happening.

I should have clarified... It's not 30 ft. vertically. It's only about 6 ft. vertical and the rest horizontal.

 

[Forsaken77]

It will waste deion resin if its on a float. Unless you got one of those ro units that dont bleed tds after its shut off. Also you should instal a check valve so the water can only go one way.

I have a bypass for the DI resin so when I flush, everything goes to the drain without touching the resin. The check valve wouldn't do much because the water needs to run from the can to the sump. If a syphon starts, a check valve won't help because the water is already going the way I need. I have check valves on other places on the RODI unit where they should be.

 

[Forsaken77]

To put it in simpler terms... I want to move the resevoir can that's next to the RODI unit about 30 ft. away. Only 6 ft. vertically, the rest is horizontally.

I already have the float installed through the can so the auto shutoff will kill all water when the pail is full. I already flooded the basement once.

Horizontal doesn't really affect head loss and I have about 70 psi going into the membrane.

I would still have to go to the basement to turn on the water, flush the unit with the DI bypass, then switch the bypass back to the can after flushing.

I don't know if the long run will trigger the pressure sensor on the auto shutoff kit, but I think it should be fine being it's mostly horizontal.

The issue I really need help with is installing a method to use the can as my ato resevoir as well. Something that goes through the can. I can also place that 1/4" bulkead I linked to in the OP on the lid, but then have a tube running down from the lid into the can.

The peristaltic pump will be sucking water from the can, not pushing it out.

 

[Forsaken77]

Standard bulkheads work with brutes.
If you are trying to run ice maker plastic line from the brute, you need a standard bulkhead and then a reducer to a threaded fitting for the plastic waterline.

Why do you need a standard bulkead for RO tubing with a reducer? The bulkhead I linked to is a 1/4" push connect bulkhead.

 

[redfishbluefish]

I should have clarified... It's not 30 ft. vertically. It's only about 6 ft. vertical and the rest horizontal.

The 6 foot rise is part of the problem, but the total 30 is more the issue. Here's my suggestion....since 1/4 inch tubing is cheap. Simply pick a time of your current system....say one hour....and measure the volume of water it produces. Now attach 30 feet of tubing and repeat, noting the volume after an hour. I think you'll be surprised. The smaller the diameter of pipe/tubing, the greater the cross-sectional frictional loss.

 

[K. Steven]

What if you convert the tubing coming out of the unit to ⅜"? That may relieve some of the back pressure trying to push it 30 feet.

 

[Forsaken77]

What if you convert the tubing coming out of the unit to ⅜"? That may relieve some of the back pressure trying to push it 30 feet.

The can is connected to the rodi's auto shutoff and that's 1/4". And it already has the float switch installed in the can for 1/4" tubing that goes through the pail. I was trying to use what I had.

I mean, it's not a pump, pumping water that far. It's coming off a water spigot for a garden hose, but by the washer. So as long as water is being pushed into it, shouldn't it just go regardless? Or will it drop the pressure of the whole rodi unit? The waste water is still next to the unit, just not the product water.

 

[K. Steven]

From my understanding, the length of tubing increases the friction that the unit has to overcome and reduces efficiency. Small diameter tubing has higher frictional force than larger diameter tubing. You want to be relieving as much friction in the tubing after the unit to make it more efficient, so it doesn't have to fight against this friction to move water into the unit (faster out means faster in). In this case, I would think production rate would greatly depend on the friction in the 30 feet of tubing and how well it can be relieved. This is why I suggested increasing the diameter of the tubing in your product water line, but I agree to use what you have. There is a higher surface area to volume ratio in smaller diameter tubing, which is responsible for the increased frictional loss that @redfishbluefish mentions in #13.

 

[LJLKRL05]

Could you run 30 feet of garden hose and move the RODI unit with the Brute can?

 

[Forsaken77]

Could you run 30 feet of garden hose and move the RODI unit with the Brute can?

Good idea, but no. The rodi line goes under the rug the whole way and past a sliding door, then into another room. I wouldn't have a waste water outlet in that room either.