Need to be educated.

Val Shebeko · May 7, 2017

Hi,

I was dosing Red Sea Alk , Mg, and Ca. And had very stable chemistry.

A while ago Ph started to treand down along with Mg while Alk and Ca. went up.

Called local reef shop and the answer was my ions were out of balance because of two part dosing and should be using something called Balance and my ions would be balanced. Dosing about 25 ml of Balance and Ph continues to vary not by much but the swing seems to be increasing and inspite of increasing dosing the Alk , Ca and Mg seems to be trending down .

Local reef store recommends Kalc in ato. This is the stuff that has some Mg and Strotium in it as added benefit.

My question.

Is Kalc route wise ?

Is ato administration prudent ?

Is dosing pump method better ?

Do I continue with two part and Kalc ?

Will this address the ion issue ?

Is there a better way ?

My tank background numbers are:
have a 120 gallon tank. Thinking about a 100 actual gallons.
Deep sand bed. No sump.
Tank has been running about 3 years now.
Hang on side skimmer set to do very very light skimming.
Two moss eating Tangs.
Two small Damsels.
A bunch of snails.
5 Urichins. Including quills, about the size of tangerines.
2 or three shrimp ( my wife likes them )
Chemistry is as :
Temp: 79 F , very constant
Ph as measured by Apex is 7.94 - 8.17 following a day night cycle.
Light is Kessil , white / color on a 24 hour cycle is. 0-5-15-5-5-0. The first 5 % is achieved by 7 Am and total
Dark is at 22: 00.
Blue is on same schedule as white: 35-70-80-70-35-0
Salinity this morning is; 32.9 - 1.0248
Ammonia 0.29
Nitrate 0.14
Phos. .34
Alk. 9.74 / 174. With dosing of .7 mil daily
Mg 1160. Dosing 3 mil daily
Ca 390. Dosing 2 mil daily
I have been adding 25 mil of Balance by Aquavitro to dampen the Ph swing supposed caused by an ion inbalance.
Water change 5 gal every few days.
My question is what do you all think ?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Val

Cory · May 7, 2017

Ph is unimportant if alkalinity is above 7dkh at all times. Ph rarely goes below 7.8 when alk is above 7dkh.

Kalkwasser is a good choice as it adds alk and raises ph. But its a balancing act betwen evaporation and alk additions.

Val Shebeko · May 7, 2017

Cory said:
Ph is unimportant if alkalinity is above 7dkh at all times. Ph rarely goes below 7.8 when alk is above 7dkh.

Kalkwasser is a good choice as it adds alk and raises ph. But its a balancing act betwen evaporation and alk additions.

So dosing Kalc is better then ato ?

Flippers4pups · May 7, 2017

I use kalkwasser in my ATO and I'm now at a crossroad with calcium. It's not enough to keep it around 400ppm. So I'm heading towards two part to keep up.

Been using sodium carbonate for alkalinity for sometime now and has worked well winging it, but it's time.

Go DIY two part and dose as directed and don't look back.

Val Shebeko · May 7, 2017

Flippers4pups said:
I use kalkwasser in my ATO and I'm now at a crossroad with calcium. It's not enough to keep it around 400ppm. So I'm heading towards two part to keep up.

Been using sodium carbonate for alkalinity for sometime now and has worked well winging it, but it's time.

Go DIY two part and dose as directed and don't look back.

But then you run into this bogeyman called , ion inbalance.

Val Shebeko · May 7, 2017

Flippers4pups said:
I use kalkwasser in my ATO and I'm now at a crossroad with calcium. It's not enough to keep it around 400ppm. So I'm heading towards two part to keep up.

Been using sodium carbonate for alkalinity for sometime now and has worked well winging it, but it's time.

Go DIY two part and dose as directed and don't look back.

And apparently ever increasing Mg consumption.

Flippers4pups · May 7, 2017

If you dose two part correctly, it will balance. Once balanced, mag consumption will go down.

Val Shebeko · May 7, 2017

Flippers4pups said:
If you dose two part correctly, it will balance.

Tell me, how.

Flippers4pups · May 7, 2017

Let me find the article. Give me a second and I'll be right back.

Val Shebeko · May 7, 2017

Flippers4pups said:
Let me find the article. Give me a second and I'll be right back.

Take your time. Takes me a while to get smart.

Flippers4pups · May 7, 2017

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/

And
Check out this video on YouTube:

Cory · May 7, 2017

Val Shebeko said:
So dosing Kalc is better then ato ?

You dose kalk in your ato with pure water. Kalk provides both alk and calcium in balanced proportions needed for calcification of corals. Its supposed to be able to maintain alk and calcium.

Others use calcium reactors which dissolves coral skeletons and other calcium based products, providing cal and alk equally as kalk. Requires a co2 tank and a "bubble counter" to know how acidic the reactor is getting. Requires a ph meter. Its more complicated.

Two part dosing uses alk and calcium in separate containers. Usually required a dosing pump. Or a slow drip which can clog.

The easiest way is test daily for alk/calcium and add baking soda to raise alk in a cup of pure water. You can do the same for calcium by adding calcium chloride to a cup of water.

Val Shebeko · May 7, 2017

Inwill check this all out pdq and I am sure I will have even more questions. Thank you !

Flippers4pups · May 7, 2017

Yes, I'm at a point where my SPS corals are consuming more calcium than the max amount I can put into solution in my ATO. A calcium reactor isn't in my budget right now and is most likely were I'll end up in the end.

Val Shebeko · May 7, 2017

Flippers4pups said:
Yes, I'm at a point where my SPS corals are consuming more calcium than the max amount I can put into solution in my ATO. A calcium reactor isn't in my budget right now and is most likely were I'll end up in the end.

My needs are modest. I think.

I like Zoas.

Flippers4pups · May 7, 2017

Val Shebeko said:
My needs are modest. I think.

I like Zoas.

Glad to help. Once balanced, consumption will stabilize.

Happy reefing!

Val Shebeko · May 7, 2017

I will work on this.

Val Shebeko · May 7, 2017

Flippers4pups said:
Glad to help. Once balanced, consumption will stabilize.

Happy reefing!

I am using a commercial two part. Actually three part. Alk, Ca and Mg via dosing.

jason2459 · May 8, 2017

Cory said:
Ph is unimportant if alkalinity is above 7dkh at all times. Ph rarely goes below 7.8 when alk is above 7dkh.

Kalkwasser is a good choice as it adds alk and raises ph. But its a balancing act betwen evaporation and alk additions.

pH is not an issue unless it is. I'm always battling low pH. With out any intervention my pH will drop consistently below 7.8 and at times below 7.7 regardless of my alkalinity. I have kept my alkalinity boosted around 11-12dkh and even up to 12-13dkh. Having the house closed up year round due to allergies and especially in the winter with furnace and fireplaces going my pH is a huge issue. I have a CO2 meter now and it's consistently over 800-1000.

pH IME with our small closed systems are greatly influenced by CO2 levels in the home with out intervention.

Val Shebeko said:
So dosing Kalc is better then ato ?

Dosing limewater (kalk) has been my primary means of helping pH and alone will keep pH at and above 7.8. I used to dose via my ATO but evaporation rates vary which seems fine but following another reefers lead in trying to keep dosing levels consistent for alkalinity level sake I separated my limewater from my ATO.

So, now I have my RO/DI ATO with nothing else in it. And have another container I mix my limewater in and dose from there. I have a dedicated dosing pump that I have setup on a timer that doses for 1 second every minute or so 24/7. Doing so I actually found increased my base pH level overall even though it's dosing less then the evaporation rate but it's doing it consistently through out the day.

This tells me dosing via ATO was inconsistent enough to allow enough time for the CO2 in the air to drive that pH lower over all.

Val Shebeko · May 8, 2017

jason2459 said:
pH is not an issue unless it is. I'm always battling low pH. With out any intervention my pH will drop consistently below 7.8 and at times below 7.7 regardless of my alkalinity. I have kept my alkalinity boosted around 11-12dkh and even up to 12-13dkh. Having the house closed up year round due to allergies and especially in the winter with furnace and fireplaces going my pH is a huge issue. I have a CO2 meter now and it's consistently over 800-1000.

pH IME with our small closed systems are greatly influenced by CO2 levels in the home with out intervention.

Dosing limewater (kalk) has been my primary means of helping pH and alone will keep pH at and above 7.8. I used to dose via my ATO but evaporation rates vary which seems fine but following another reefers lead in trying to keep dosing levels consistent for alkalinity level sake I separated my limewater from my ATO.

So, now I have my RO/DI ATO with nothing else in it. And have another container I mix my limewater in and dose from there. I have a dedicated dosing pump that I have setup on a timer that doses for 1 second every minute or so 24/7. Doing so I actually found increased my base pH level overall even though it's dosing less then the evaporation rate but it's doing it consistently through out the day.

This tells me dosing via ATO was inconsistent enough to allow enough time for the CO2 in the air to drive that pH lower over all.

1 sec a minute. How many mils do you suppose that is ?

The kalc package says about a teaspoon per gal of RO. When I do that and let it settle over night I get a layer of undissolved material on the bottom
Of the bucket.

I pour off the liquid which I understand is the saturated solution. Can I add more ro to the bucket ? Or donI throw the undisolved away and start fresh ?

On the subject of Co in the house. I ran an outside line to the air intake of my skimmer. Seems to help a bit.

Looking forward to you thoughts on the kalc questions.

Thanks Val