Need to replace my lighting need help on upgrade decision

lgedelian · Jun 18, 2012

I started out with a 55gal tank my uncle gave me when he first introduced me to the saltwater world. About 2 years after he helped me get started he passed away and I was left to venture into the hobby on my own. I got a few of his corals to keep and then needed to upgrade my lighting on my 55gal to support the higher light needs. Im sure you are all going to cringe when I tell you that I bout a 48" lighting system from aquatraders (I was only in middle school..15 or 16yr old at this time so thats what i could afford after a whole summers worth of working for neighbors and relatives etc.) The light has 2x250 watt metal halides 4x65 power compacts with leds for moonlighting. So long story short I have since upgraded to a 130gal show tank...4ft x2ft x25 or 26" is the demensions of the tank. Its been on this larger tank for about 2 years now and have had this light for a total 6 or 7 years. I finally had the last of the original ballast give out on my i replaced the other one once and I think im more than ready to ditch the crappy quality light.

Im thinking i want to upgrade to 400watt metal halides with t5's or power compacts for my actinic lighting and some leds for moonlighting. I havent seen to many complete lighting units with 400watters so guess ill have to get seperate pendants and some sort of combination for the other lights. Any suggestions? And if i piece the different lighingt components together myself I need to somehow make a unit i can hang as one over the tank. With so many lighting options im overwhelmed! PLEASE HELP! :squigglemouth:

MBG75 · Jun 18, 2012

I'd say an 8 bulb t5 like an ATI.
But if you want to stay halide I'd go with a 2x250 light with 2 or 4 t5's combo.
Something like a current outer orbit or a maristar.
Then add a blue reefbrite to it. Gives you all three types of lighting.
Ultimate combo.

thewackyreefer · Jun 18, 2012

I'd agree, unless you're gonna give LED's a shot go with T-5's. You can get a good fixture for a reasonable price (you can probably find one used) and it'll be cooler and cheaper than the MH's.

wysiwyg · Jun 18, 2012

i have a 60x30x30 and run 3 250w mh and 2 blue actinic so you could get away with 2 250mh and some blue actinics

mcarroll · Jun 18, 2012

On a tank that is basically 2 ft deep I would hesitate to go 400 watt.

However, ditching the crappy light is perfectly valid.

I would just get a nice pair of reflectors and ballasts and run a pair of 250 watt Radiums over the tank. You won't miss the T5's at all during the day, just get real night lights if you want some before/after lighting.

I would consider Coral Vue for ballast and pendant.

Their Lumen Bright reflector does a better job than some in limiting light spill.
Their Luxcore 400B ballast is switchable between 250 watt, 250 HQI, 400 watt and 400+.

lgedelian · Jun 19, 2012

Yea I actually had great luck with my metal halides I dont think im ready to completely switch to something different. Although i would like to try the reeftech led units but as im a student, I dont think its wise to dump $2500 into that adventure. Ive heard about the Lumatek ballast that will do 250's and 400's are they good quality? Havent heard of the Luxcore are they better than Lumateks? The fact that they can power the 250 or 400's kinda like the versatility if i grow into a larger tank or want to use them in a different application. Also, if i tried the 400's and didn't like them i would have that safety net of going back to the 250's. My LFS said the 400's would work nicely for my tank, do you guys think its way overkill? Im finding that i tend to like SPS more and more but still like a variety in my tank. Also, im becoming more obcessed with the idea of clams! I wish there was a nice lighting fixture with 400 watt mh and the t5's for actinics and moonlights all in one...most seem just to have 250's for the mh portion. For my application I will have to hang all my lighting from the ceiling. What is the best way to hang multiple light fixtures (if i were to get 2xmh pendants, 2 fixtures of some sort for actinics in front and back of mh's, and moonlights)together over a tank. Seems like ive seen youtube vids with guys piecing an aluminum type frame together for their custom lighting unit, anyone know of this? oh,btw thanks for all the suggestions so far, I got on reefcentral and posted a similar thread and no one there ever responds...lame!

Matt888 · Jun 19, 2012

Have you considered the Lumen bright All-in-one fixture? T5's, moonlights, Halides in one setup... No need to build a hood or fixture.

_Alex_ · Jun 19, 2012

i have nevre used MH but i really cant see where 400watt halides woudl be needed, but i did have a local guy that had 3 400's over his 6ft 120 and it did well... just coudl feel the heat rollign off of it when all 3 were on.

lgedelian · Jun 19, 2012

I did look at the Lumen Bright Fixture and im going to keep it in mind. The only thing i didn't care for is the way the ballast were all in one unit...i would rather have them separate what happens when they need to be replaced? could you use any ballast you wanted? Also it has only one t5 on each side i kinda would like two in the front and two in the back. Also, my tank is in a refinished basement so im not so worried about heat, because the basement is cool year round ( I think thats why my crappy aquatraders light lasted so long). The lighting cycle i currently have programmed with my light is: morning the actinic power compacs come on for a few hours then they turn off, then the halides turn on for a couple hours. then for my "high noon" the halides are running and the power compacts join them for about an hour then turn off. And then in the evening the halides turn off and the actinics are on again for a hour or so, when they turn off the moonlights come on.

Matt888 · Jun 20, 2012

Sounds like you know what you want and unfortunately, unless you build it yourself, you will have to pony up some coin for a quality fixture that satisfies all of the criteria. I'm in a similar situation. Currently pulling together an SPS 210g. The lighting is the most "stressful" part to me because I know I want 3x400w 20k radiums, 4 T5s, AND no hood. That pretty much leaves me with the Geisemann Spectra or XR6 Sfiligoi fixtures the way I see it. No way I'm planning out this system for over a year, drilling through my garage wall, setting up tank in main room of house, etc. And cheaping out on the lights. I'm surrendering more and more each day to the fact that lighting will be 2-3K... Ugh.

Pappy · Jun 20, 2012

I just upgraded to a 75 from a 40 tall. I had 2 150hdi reeflux 20k and 2 power brites for actinics. I had a member on this forum make me a DIY led fixture with 3 watt Crees and my corals have never looked better and are growing like weeds! Mostly zoas, lps, and montis in tank. So IMO hope you don't rule out that option because I am very very happy with decision!

Matt888 · Jun 20, 2012

Lighting will always be a bit subjective when it comes to asthetics, but once you see a jaw dropping sps tank with a particular combination of illumination, nothing else will do. I suspect the original thread author may be looking to go halide/t5 for this very reason (asthetic/growth) because it certainly isnt for energy bill savings. I'm fortunate to live close to one of the nicest 180g SPS tanks in the hobby. A web search for Emster's or Emmett's 180 gallon will reveal this particular tank and it's unreal. The color, shimmer, growth are literally what inspired me to do a large sps tank. It's not just my opinion, many have seen it in-person and it rivals any sps tank. Hell, they even use pics of the tank to sell Sea Swirls at one point. What I'm getting at is yes, there's alot of lighting options out there, but I'll take the proven, verified in-person option over "I have LEDs and the color is great.". Let's get back on topic... 3 halides, 4 T5s, moonlights... How the author plans on executing.

lgedelian · Jun 24, 2012

well i guess as crappy as it is im glad someone shares my pain! Lighting is deff the most important part and I didn't come this far (and pour all my extra spending/fun money) into this tank for nothing. I just simply prefer a bright tank and a lighting system that does not limit me. If there is anything I hate about this hobby, its walking into a store, finding an awesome piece of coral just to find out....."um i dont think you have enough light to keep that specimen"! Its a much better feeling to walk in knowing you can have whatever you want...

Mufasa31 · Jun 24, 2012

I had the Oddysea 250 mh with pc actinics on my 30 cube.
I upgraded the ballast to a Lumatek and the bulb to a Phoenix 14K and I was not limited on corals.
I you wanted to save money, you could just consider getting better ballasts for your current lighting.
fwiw, I am going to be setting the cube back up. This time using the Kessil A350.

Young Frankenstein · Jun 24, 2012

take a look at this
https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/do-yourself-diy/89696-do-yourself-tip-day-2-metal.html

mcarroll · Jun 25, 2012

lgedelian said:
well i guess as crappy as it is im glad someone shares my pain! Lighting is deff the most important part and I didn't come this far (and pour all my extra spending/fun money) into this tank for nothing. I just simply prefer a bright tank and a lighting system that does not limit me. If there is anything I hate about this hobby, its walking into a store, finding an awesome piece of coral just to find out....."um i dont think you have enough light to keep that specimen"! Its a much better feeling to walk in knowing you can have whatever you want...

You imply that an LED system will be dim and will limit you. That you will be walking into stores shopping for coral and only find bright light specimens that you want, but will not be able to keep.

First, after what I say don't forget I didn't vote against halide up there!

If you add the budget up, compare with an LED solution so you know the savings you will be missing (this is guaranteed), and still want to go halide, I understand! The rig I described above to host a set of Radiums, whether 250 or 400 watt, will give you arguably the best color you can get over a reef tank - no extra blue lights needed. (So you'll still save at least a little bit of power. Take that LEDs!)

Second, even though you certainly should not feel any obligation to switch lighting if you like (and can afford to keep paying for) what you have, you should still do it without misconceptions about the alternatives. What I mean, is that the days of our lighting systems "limiting us" pretty much ended with the T12 generation of florescent lighting. After that - with halide, power compact, T5HO - it has been purely a matter of "3-5 watts per gallon". If you obey that rule (and have a normally proportioned tank) you have enough light. It's taken some time to understand LED's, but they are pretty much a known, mature reef-lighting technology at this point. We certainly know they are not "limited" as all the folks who upgrade their "phat halide rig" to LED's and bleach out their corals can attest to.

If you look around at people's experiences with LED's - especially DIYers using standard packages like GU10 LED bulbs....like mine, or even the commercial fixtures like AI Sol's*, you can see exactly what the fixtures are doing and start to get an idea that 50% of the wattage would be about the most LED-watts you'd want to throw at a tank under normal circumstances. I'd put the "3-5 watts rule" for LEDs at about 1-1.5 watts per gallon.

Third, having a bright lighting system is no carte blanche to whatever the coral store sells. A higher percentage of corals sold today than ever are for mid- to low-lighting scenarios -- knowing which is which is what to worry or "feel better" about.

E.g. Drop a Ponape Birdsnest under your 400 watt Radiums and you better like pastel colors more than bright colors.

The only other thing I'll add is a thought I had before switching away from halide earlier this year: Was I maintaing a tank, or maintaining a lighting system?

The way the costs stack up - especially as I got on into years 5+ where the tank was fully stocked with SPS and booming - the tank was costing me almost nothing outside of the lighting. I was really taking care of a lighting system...and with very limited budget the call I had to make was clear. Obviously, YMMV on this.

Good luck, and I hope this helps!

-Matt

* This is not to give short shrift to the much-more-common and just-as-successful DC-powered DIY LED rigs you'll see on this and other sites.....just not pointing you there first as those rigs are all a bit more "mysterious" or arcane in their configuration and deployment AND sometime very customized for their particular installation, so it's a little hard to glean what you really need to know about them. Not to draw fire, but watching one of these type of build threads reminds me of the T5 bulb-combo threads of yore. Voodoo! ;-) No offense, just not for me as it's hard to learn anything from....how I wound up a halide guy in the first place. So-o much simpler...which is almost always better. Someday I'll write the book: "How Radiums Saved The World" Hahah.