Negative experience dosing Phosphate and Nitrate

[Bobblehead]

My tank has been reading almost undetectable levels of both P and N for a long while. I should have left this alone as my most of the corals in my mixed tank were doing fairly well but I felt that the colours were a bit muted and acans always seemed to shrivel up on me. I started dosing Calcium Nitrate and Potassium Phosphate near the end of October to a target level of 4 and .03 respectively. Within 3 days of dosing, I hit this target so I stopped with the dosing all while keeping an eye on levels. While the levels seemed steady at least for a couple of days, I noticed an almost immediate change in many of my corals

Monti cap, basically dead, and an encrusting monti lost almost all colour and no polyps visible anymore
Half of my acropora are now showing their mesenterial filaments frequently and am starting to see these thin brown threads on the tips of some, including my anacropora forbesi. Almost like dinos. Anacropora also lost colour
Green dome plate coral hasn't extended its tentacles to its usual amount since dosing
Birds nest polyps are out and colour is good but can tell that the branches aren't as bushy as before
And finally not sure if this is a sign of anything but I'm noticing my clownfish hanging out in his frogspawn much more than before, as if its afraid to venture out

Last water test was Nov. 5

Salinity - 35 ppt
Alkalinity - 8.3
Calcium - 400
pH - 8.4
Nitrate - 4
Phos - 0.04

I'm going to test water later today but I'm pretty sure the P and N levels have dropped since last dosing. I feed a lot so am not too worried about bottoming out. For those that may ask if I've made any other changes, no, I haven't. Not intentionally anyway. Opinions on what went wrong are welcome but all I'm going to do for now is a 10% water change and carry on as before dosing. Leave well enough alone! Lesson learned!!

Before and after of green plate

 

[Larry L]

Do you have any idea where your Potassium levels are at (since you also were dosing that via the Potassium Phosphate)? Running it into the high 400's or even low 500's is not necessarily bad (some people do that on purpose to enhance colors), but maybe it spiked faster than your livestock appreciated.

 

[joseserrano]

How long has that hair algae been on your rock? That’s a sign of excess waste. I also missed a little nitrate recently and lost a few corals and had almost immediate color loss.

 

[Larry L]

How long has that hair algae been on your rock?

Good point, it's possible to get low/zero readings even if your nitrates or phosphate are actually high, if the algae is consuming it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

What exactly did you dose?

 

[Saltyreef]

Did the SAME thing as you.
Undetectable nutrients on a very established reef. Good growth and coloration but some pieces were missing some of the colors i was expecting.
Started dosing monopotassium nitrate and potassium phosphate to end up at a target of 10 and .04.

My tank since then has lost most of the coral including very hardy pieces.
Still to this day nearly a year later has still left it with an imbalance clearly seen in the corals health.
Its to the point now where i wont buy anything and if i do....theyre mushrooms....lol

 

[Bobblehead]

How long has that hair algae been on your rock? That’s a sign of excess waste. I also missed a little nitrate recently and lost a few corals and had almost immediate color loss.

I’ve had GHA for a few months now. I tried Chemipure elite but I got a case of dinos from it so pulled it and am using regular Chemipure now. I know over feeding can cause GHA but since my “nutrient” levels were reading near zero, I thought increasing at some correct ratio would decrease algae.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I’ve had GHA for a few months now. I tried Chemipure elite but I got a case of dinos from it so pulled it and am using regular Chemipure now. I know over feeding can cause GHA but since my “nutrient” levels were reading near zero, I thought increasing at some correct ratio would decrease algae.

increasing nutrients generally is not a way to deter algae.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Did the SAME thing as you.
Undetectable nutrients on a very established reef. Good growth and coloration but some pieces were missing some of the colors i was expecting.
Started dosing monopotassium nitrate and potassium phosphate to end up at a target of 10 and .04.

My tank since then has lost most of the coral including very hardy pieces.
Still to this day nearly a year later has still left it with an imbalance clearly seen in the corals health.
Its to the point now where i wont buy anything and if i do....theyre mushrooms....lol

I don’t doubt it happened, but I do doubt the dosing caused it if it was adequately pure and the amounts were appropriate. It’s no different than feeding more.

 

[joseserrano]

I personally used the bionic nitrate

 

[Bobblehead]

Do you have any idea where your Potassium levels are at (since you also were dosing that via the Potassium Phosphate)? Running it into the high 400's or even low 500's is not necessarily bad (some people do that on purpose to enhance colors), but maybe it spiked faster than your livestock appreciated.

No I don't have a test kit for K but I just started dosing so I can't be too high, can I?

 

[Bobblehead]

What exactly did you dose?

Calcium Nitrate: Ca 19%, N-NO3 14.5%, NH4 1%

Mixed at 35g to 500ml RODI and dosed 10ml for 1.9ppm increase per day.

Potassium Phosphate: P2O5 52%, K2O 34%

Mixed at 10g to 500ml RODI and dosed .5ml for 0.03ppm increase per day. ( on hindsight, maybe this was too much too soon?)

Tank is 65 gallon total volume. As for purity of these chemicals, I can't say for sure but I did buy it from an aquatics store for whatever thats worth. Probably not much, haha.

 

[Bobblehead]

increasing nutrients generally is not a way to deter algae.

Yeah...I should know that but I've also read reports of people getting their balance of N and P in order and seeing their GHA disappear so this was kind of an act of faith. Which didn't work. I suppose the only other thing it could be is the purity of materials. Thanks for the input!

 

[Saltyreef]

I don’t doubt it happened, but I do doubt the dosing caused it if it was adequately pure and the amounts were appropriate. It’s no different than feeding more.

Im pretty sure i overdosed it to 100ppm to start as my math was WAY off.
And that was over the course of 4-5 days.
Im sure thats what did my tank in, and i see similarities in this thread.


My tank is 10 years old and ive never had a mass loss like i did. It wasnt immediate. But over time it caused a lot of my high end hoards to wither away until they were gone.
All that changed was the dosing of the nitrate and phosphate.
Id do it again but would make sure im 100% on math and honestly, would only raise each to be barely detectable with a hobby grade color comparison test kit. I wouldnt be targeting any sort of ratio or number.....

 

[Bobblehead]

I'm pretty sure I didn't OD my tank as my Red Sea Nitrate Test kit and Hanna ULR Phos checker read within acceptable limits even considering margin of error. What I may do differently next time like you said is to add this stuff very slowly. I already thought I was adding minute amounts of both so didn't think it would be a problem to go at the rate I did.

 

[Saltyreef]

I'm pretty sure I didn't OD my tank as my Red Sea Nitrate Test kit and Hanna ULR Phos checker read within acceptable limits even considering margin of error. What I may do differently next time like you said is to add this stuff very slowly. I already thought I was adding minute amounts of both so didn't think it would be a problem to go at the rate I did.

I wasnt implying that you nuked it by any means but maybe the increased nutrients is something our tanks dont agree with.
I brought it back down to a fair number around 10 with massive water changes as soon as i saw the dark pink glow lol.

 

[Bobblehead]

My acros that were showing the mesenterial filaments are starting to show signs of STN now And although I don't see it anywhere else, I'm starting to think the thin brown threads on the tips of the acros are the dinos coming back. Inserting bad word here.

My water test results today after doing a 10% water change yesterday:

Salinity 35ppt
pH 8.4, API
Alk 8.3, Hanna
Ca 420, Red Sea
Mg 1400, Red Sea
N 4 or maybe higher, used low range test and maxed out (did do a high range test a couple days ago and got 4), Red Sea
P 0.012, Hanna

So nothing out of the ordinary as far as I can tell other than P being a tad low. I did remember a while ago that Randy said to dose the Calcium Nitrate slowly as it contained ammonia but couldn't remember what dose he recommended. I did throw an ammonia badge in as soon as I started seeing the corals go south but it never registered anything. So I feel like I'm left with an impure additive as being the only culprit here. I'm planning another 10% WC tomorrow and just hoping for the best from here onwards.

 

[kecked]

I learned a hard lesson cuz it’s not my nature. If it looks good leave it alone. Every time I try to make it better I make it worse...or so I thought. Then I learned make changes over months and now I do see incremental better changes with dosing. Patience is required when making changes. I had a similar response when I did as you did. Back it off and add 1/10 as much and slowly ramp up over a month or so. Nothing new in what I’m saying but figured a reminder that our pets move slower than we like might help. My reef is happiest when I forget it’s there.

 

[Bobblehead]

I learned a hard lesson cuz it’s not my nature. If it looks good leave it alone. Every time I try to make it better I make it worse...or so I thought. Then I learned make changes over months and now I do see incremental better changes with dosing. Patience is required when making changes. I had a similar response when I did as you did. Back it off and add 1/10 as much and slowly ramp up over a month or so. Nothing new in what I’m saying but figured a reminder that our pets move slower than we like might help. My reef is happiest when I forget it’s there.

Yeah, that’s what I’m doing for now, going back to doing what I was doing. Most of my surviving corals have stabilized now but I recently had a light fixture failure so things could still swing either way. Once the tank is acclimated to the new light, I MAY consider slooowly dosing as you say. Kinda scared though to be honest haha