Neptune apex solenoid valves, redundancy required

[SAMS]

I’m planning on using the Neptune solenoid valves for the following

1) water supply going to the RO unit
2) to automatically flush my RO membranes rather then relying on my units manual flush.
3) the inlet feed from my RO water storage barrel to my ATU.
4) and on my calcium reactor (as I’ve been told that I need one for safety).

Would you suggest installing a secondary valve in case the first one fails?
Or are they very reliable?

I will be purchasing an apex system when I move, but I’m planning the full list ready for when I hit the button.

 

[reef lover]

Bump!

 

[ca1ore]

Where valve failure will cause major problems, I always use redundant units. I've no reason to think that the apex is any more or less reliable than the other available in the market.

 

[Jeffdstafford]

I’m planning on using the Neptune solenoid valves for the following

1) water supply going to the RO unit
2) to automatically flush my RO membranes rather then relying on my units manual flush.
3) the inlet feed from my RO water storage barrel to my ATU.
4) and on my calcium reactor (as I’ve been told that I need one for safety).

Would you suggest installing a secondary valve in case the first one fails?
Or are they very reliable?

I will be purchasing an apex system when I move, but I’m planning the full list ready for when I hit the button.

Just a word of caution based on failures I've had previously..personally I would *NEVER* (again) consider running any type of solenoid on the supply side of an RODI unit..the valve WILL fail, it's just a matter of when, and the timing will be based on the quality of your supply water. The tiny orifice openings in any solenoid sized for that application will accumulate water mineral deposits and eventually either restrict flow, or seize up the unit and prevent it from closing. The latter happened to me, with a high quality Tunze water solenoid..after a year, one day it just didn't shut off and caused a massive flood. Same goes for the RO membrane flush, that is dirty high TDS water going through it that will eventually cause the unit to fail.

I'm sure there are plenty of people who haven't had these failures, but I sure did and caused major issues for me. I also spoke with Tunze and they said absolutely never use their product in this manner, it will fail at some point.

The only way to safely solenoid control your RODI is to have the solenoid on the DI output so only pure water is passing through, and have the closed DI output activate a hydraulic auto shutoff valve..which most units have that is activated by a float valve. Just don't put it on the supply inlet line!!

I also wouldn't personally use a solenoid on a calcium reactor for the above mentioned reasons..tank water is nasty!

 

[bruin008]

What i did to make sure my i wont get any problems with a failing solenoid or broken pressure valve on the RO itself is putting a neptune leak detector beneath the unit and water storage tank. I powered the RO unit by a Neptune EB6 and programmed it to shut of the RO unit when one of the leak detectors detects water.

 

[Tastee]

Interesting thread. I’m about to upgrade my water station with 2 Neptune solenoids, first one to control input line to the RODI and second one to automate a flush cycle on startup. Hi/low RO level will be detected by optical sensors. I will use a shut-off valve (pressure sensitive solenoid) as a backup for filling but don’t plan backups for the input line.

I have had 12v solenoids running my garden watering system for over 10 years now and they are yet to fail. I test each circuit monthly but that is only to check the hosing hasn’t failed. I would see a solenoid failure immediately.

For me a failure of my water station is not a big issue (except the wasted water and a little cost there) as it is located outside, but my experience with my garden control doesn’t seem to suggest this is a big risk. My incoming TDS is around 75, so probably not as bad as others have. The risk probably has a lot to do with the quality of your incoming water supply, I am fortunate in that we have very high quality drinking water where I am.

The suggestion to use a leak detector is a good one - unfortunately in my case normal rain events would probably set it off as the water station is housed in a cabinet with a roof, but only enclosed on 3 sides. In an indoor setting however this is something I would definitely invest in if possible.

 

[Jeffdstafford]

Interesting thread. I’m about to upgrade my water station with 2 Neptune solenoids, first one to control input line to the RODI and second one to automate a flush cycle on startup. Hi/low RO level will be detected by optical sensors. I will use a shut-off valve (pressure sensitive solenoid) as a backup for filling but don’t plan backups for the input line.

I have had 12v solenoids running my garden watering system for over 10 years now and they are yet to fail. I test each circuit monthly but that is only to check the hosing hasn’t failed. I would see a solenoid failure immediately.

For me a failure of my water station is not a big issue (except the wasted water and a little cost there) as it is located outside, but my experience with my garden control doesn’t seem to suggest this is a big risk. My incoming TDS is around 75, so probably not as bad as others have. The risk probably has a lot to do with the quality of your incoming water supply, I am fortunate in that we have very high quality drinking water where I am.

The suggestion to use a leak detector is a good one - unfortunately in my case normal rain events would probably set it off as the water station is housed in a cabinet with a roof, but only enclosed on 3 sides. In an indoor setting however this is something I would definitely invest in if possible.

I fully agree, the TDS of your source water will definitely determine how destructive it is on equipment

 

[Erick Armanii]

How does one use the apex to automate the flushing of the membrane? I just ordered a solenoid to automatic turn on and fill up my RoDI reservoirs but I still manually flush unless I’m missing a key component here

 

[SAMS]

I work for a company that sells RO units here in the UK (not advertising admins).

Our systems use a manual flush and automatic flush as standard.
How I am going to do it is create a bypass around the dual waste restrictor/automatic flush valve, so that when the apex solenoid valve open it automatically flushes.

 

[Greybeard]

Anything automated and capable of causing damage on failure needs some level of redundancy.

1) water supply going to the RO unit
I would not use a solenoid here. Pick up a self closing 24VDC electric ball valve and plug it into an Apex 1link port.
Amazon Electric Ball Valve

2) to automatically flush my RO membranes rather then relying on my units manual flush.
What damage here? If flush is on, you're not making water, but it's not going to damage anything. Fine.

3) the inlet feed from my RO water storage barrel to my ATU.
Ok, but I'd want a safety... put a mechanical float valve at the ATO Reservoir. That way, if the solenoid fails, there's a cheap secondary device in place to keep it from overflowing.

4) and on my calcium reactor (as I’ve been told that I need one for safety).
I'd probably get a regulator with a solenoid built in for this one... something specifically designed for the purpose. I don't use a CalRx, but if I did, I'd have the CarbonDoser electronic regulator setup. Yeah, it's expensive, but a pressurized CO2 tank in your home is nothing to play around with. I'd want the best.

 

[Tastee]

How does one use the apex to automate the flushing of the membrane? I just ordered a solenoid to automatic turn on and fill up my RoDI reservoirs but I still manually flush unless I’m missing a key component here

You need a second solenoid for this, connected between your RO membrane and DI resin. From RO you go to a Tee and from there to the DI. The upside of the Tee goes to the second solenoid and from there to waste.

My RODI is now automated but without the flush cycle yet as I am waiting for a dual TDS meter to connect either side of the RO membrane. Here is the Apex program I am using - obviously the flush part is not live yet but I have bench tested it and it works perfectly. RODIFill is the input side solenoid. RODIFlush is the second solenoid opening the flush circuit. RODIFlushOff is a Virtual Outlet. RODILo and RODIHi are the low and high optical sensors in the RODI reservoir.

[RODIFill]
If RODILo OPEN Then ON
If RODIHi CLOSED Then OFF
Defer 001:00 Then ON
Defer 001:00 Then OFF

[RODIFlush]
Set OFF
If Output RODIFill = ON Then ON
If Output RODIFlushOff = ON Then OFF
When On > 002:00 Then OFF

[RODIFlushOff]
Set OFF
If Output RODIFill = ON Then ON
Defer 002:00 Then ON

 

[Erick Armanii]

You need a second solenoid for this, connected between your RO membrane and DI resin. From RO you go to a Tee and from there to the DI. The upside of the Tee goes to the second solenoid and from there to waste.

My RODI is now automated but without the flush cycle yet as I am waiting for a dual TDS meter to connect either side of the RO membrane. Here is the Apex program I am using - obviously the flush part is not live yet but I have bench tested it and it works perfectly. RODIFill is the input side solenoid. RODIFlush is the second solenoid opening the flush circuit. RODIFlushOff is a Virtual Outlet. RODILo and RODIHi are the low and high optical sensors in the RODI reservoir.

[RODIFill]
If RODILo OPEN Then ON
If RODIHi CLOSED Then OFF
Defer 001:00 Then ON
Defer 001:00 Then OFF

[RODIFlush]
Set OFF
If Output RODIFill = ON Then ON
If Output RODIFlushOff = ON Then OFF
When On > 002:00 Then OFF

[RODIFlushOff]
Set OFF
If Output RODIFill = ON Then ON
Defer 002:00 Then ON

Do I need to stop the flow out of the DI first before flushing since the T connector is not a shut off valve? Or does the water follow the path of least resistance and in this case up out of the waste line?

also this is brilliant and thank you for the code

 

[Jeto2004]

I have a solenoid on the RO output line, if RO storage tank is low, it opens and fills the RO storage tank and closes once the high sensor is triggered. As a redundancy I incorporated a mechanical float valve into the storage tank. My RO unit has an automatic flush system I restrained from putting a valve or solenoid on the water input line.

 

[Erick Armanii]

I have a solenoid on the RO output line, if RO storage tank is low, it opens and fills the RO storage tank and closes once the high sensor is triggered. As a redundancy I incorporated a mechanical float valve into the storage tank. My RO unit has an automatic flush system I restrained from putting a valve or solenoid on the water input line.

Yes I have a similar set up in mind. I bought the BRS 6 stage unit but it does not have the automatic flushing option. So every once in a while I manually flush. Luckily, my TDS is low from the house só I haven’t had to worry about TDS creep because I often forget to flush.

since I’m making the investment of doing a fully automated water station with awc I want to automate the flush process too

 

[Jeto2004]

Yes I have a similar set up in mind. I bought the BRS 6 stage unit but it does not have the automatic flushing option. So every once in a while I manually flush. Luckily, my TDS is low from the house só I haven’t had to worry about TDS creep because I often forget to flush.

since I’m making the investment of doing a fully automated water station with awc I want to automate the flush process too

Sounds good, do you can know that you can easily upgrade the BRS unit with automatic flush kit? Don't know what would be more cost efficient.

 

[Tastee]

Do I need to stop the flow out of the DI first before flushing since the T connector is not a shut off valve? Or does the water follow the path of least resistance and in this case up out of the waste line?

also this is brilliant and thank you for the code

You shouldn’t need to stop the flow out of the DI, the water will follow the path of least resistance whilst the RO flush solenoid is open. A little may still flow through the DI during this process but not much.

 

[Erick Armanii]

Sounds good, do you can know that you can easily upgrade the BRS unit with automatic flush kit? Don't know what would be more cost efficient.

They don’t make one..

 

[Jeto2004]

They don’t make one..

Reverse Osmosis Auto Flush and Flow Kits

Bulk Reef Supply - Saltwater Aquarium Supplies for Reef Tanks

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[Erick Armanii]

Reverse Osmosis Auto Flush and Flow Kits

Bulk Reef Supply - Saltwater Aquarium Supplies for Reef Tanks

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Yea I saw the AquaTec auto flush system for $105 which also would require an power outlet under the sink, but once again BRS doesn’t make an RoDI unit from the factory with the auto flush feature.

what @Tastee was suggesting is that I use the neptunes rodi solenoid for $30 and control it from my apex.

 

[Jeto2004]

Yea I saw the AquaTec auto flush system for $105 which also would require an power outlet under the sink, but once again BRS doesn’t make an RoDI unit from the factory with the auto flush feature.

what @Tastee was suggesting is that I use the neptunes rodi solenoid for $30 and control it from my apex.

I'm not telling you what to do I just provide information and experience

As I previously stated: Sounds good, do you can know that you can easily upgrade the BRS unit with automatic flush kit? Don't know what would be more cost efficient.

And yes it would be nice if BRS would have units that includes these features.....

Have you added all your components that you need to make your RO/DI automation? do you still have enough open 24V port on EBI823? Would you need to expend with a 1Link module?

From what I understood in the thread:
Automated Ball Valve to turn on off source water
DC24 to bare wire to connect Ball valve to Apex
Solenoid to Control RO/DI water to RO storage tank or as secondary redundancy to ball valve
Solenoid before DI resin to enable auto flush
Depending how far your EBI823 is couple or more of extension cables for 24V source.

Point is - design how you want it - come up with a parts list and see what is more cost efficient. More than once I have seen that a ready available solution has been more cost effective than what I thought at the beginning a "DIY" solution would be.....