Neptune Apex vs ReefKeeper

[mcarroll]

I just can't see spending 1000.00 for a controller. Like I said it's a want, not a need.

Not to keep harping, but this is why the $125 Reefkeeper Lite makes so much sense to me. Even if you outgrow it, $125 is cheaper and does more than a good set of timers and power strips.....get your use out of it and sell it to the next guy if that time comes.

You have room to add two modules to the Lite.

I've added a second 4-outlet strip ($99) and have been more than satisfied with that setup.

Someday I may add a module for pH monitoring.

They have a bunch of modules to choose from:
Modules

I also plan to buy their splitter and bus cable extension cable someday so the MyReef software can be up on a spare/junk Windows laptop all the time instead of having to unplug my iTemp as it works now. (I tried DIY cables and it didn't work.)

 

[Medic755]

I eventually plan on getting a larger, more complex tank with a basement sump and automatic water changes. Due to my work schedule I needed to have the controller help me with as much as possible and after looking at everything, if I was going to stay small and didn't have such an obtrusive work schedule I would have went with the RKE.

 

[Kershaw]

I run he Apex jr. I run my 125 on the standard 4 outlets. I use a dj power strip to control the powerheads, main pump, skimmer, auto top off. Then I use the apex to control my heaters. The lights are controlled by the vdm. You can do allot with jr

 

[aiber]

The Archon, which is the latest from Digital Aquatics, is quite a change from the RKL or the RKE. It still uses the same modules, but email notifications and the connectivity things that the Apex has are available on the Archon as well. It also has ph, ORP, temp, and switch ports all built in along with 0-10v control. The RKL is a great basic controller if you only need small things to be controlled. The Archon would be my next choice.

Hello all, I ran into this old forum and also cannot justify spending $800 for a controller. How did the Archon turn out? It has been over a year and just would like to get some feedback.

 

[MSOEME2009]

I'll just chime in and say I got a ReefKeeper Lite with 2 power bars and a SLX (pH) module used for around $100. I purchased a new pH probe and I have 8 controllable outlets, pH & temperature for $140 bucks.

While I don't have access to my controls on-line or data logging (possible with .NET module) I needed power bars and timers which would have run me more than $100 bucks. I now have safeties built in too. MyReef 2.0 wasn't straight forward, but it works.

Until I see a need for a DOS; I don't see myself getting an APEX.

My lighting is controlled by the Kessil controller and the MP10WQDs are controlled via local (set and forget on reefcrest). Feed mode shuts the power heads down and the skimmer. When they re-energize, they power right back to where they were.

My refugium comes on every day without a hitch.

 

[mitch91175]

Yeah well I already have almost 8k in it, try justifying to the wife lol.

Ok so hear is my take. At the moment, the Apex is king. All depends on what your overall objective is for monitoring will determine what you go with. Never used a ReefKeeper and never had the desire to honestly. I have been keeping an eye on the eKoral stuff that is coming out.

This is what I have currently:

Display Tank:

Frag Tank:

I am heavily invested in the Apex and really like the functionality it offers. It is kinda a pain to program at times depending on what you want to accomplish. They do have a great community of support for programming, etc though.

Now the other side of the fence. I personally have had a PM2 module completely take down my entire Apex ecosystem. Was I upset that 1 bad module could do that, absolutely. But at the same time, I really like what the Apex offers me from monitoring my system. After I had that experience, I try to incorporate other products into my system that allows me to still monitor remotely and not relying solely on the Apex. I also try to limit my programming to a point where if something does go wrong that it won't destroy my system (a challenging balancing act).

So the question really comes down to how much do you want to rely solely on the Apex? Definitely understand that it isn't perfect, but there are definitely worse controllers out there with not as much support as you will get for the Apex.

 

[mitch91175]

This is the last part that I want, not necessarily need for my 220 gallon build. I have everything but a controller sitting here waiting on the tank and stand to show up. I travel a lot and want to make it easier for wife to keep up with. I am leaning towards the apex but trying to justify the money.

If the goal is for it to be easy for the wife to maintain, I'd say that the controller isn't necessarily the goal (it will help though). The objective has to be to get her a good understanding of how the aquarium functions overall and just use a controller to help facilitate maintaining the aquarium. You could even start with a surge strip that has controllable outlets to simply turn things on/off and later down the road look into an Apex, ReefKeeper, eKoral, GHL, etc.

I have incorporated these little outlets into my system and they work out really well.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078K432TK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

A pack of 4 only cost $40 plus it has an app that you use to control them.

Here is a pic of the app:

You can set schedules, have certain things grouped to turn on/off at the same time, etc. Slick little boogers.

 

[Reef of Fillory]

Having data logging to see trends via the Apex [pH, temp, ORP, logging outlets turning on/off (such as fan, chiller, heater)] is invaluable. I bought a ReefKeeper first [used off of forums] and ended up selling it an moving to the Apex, and I should have saved money by going with the Apex in the beginning.

It is hard to swallow the cost, but if you want to be able to see more than just "what's happening now" then the Apex is my suggestion.

 

[DarthSimon]

There is no comparison from Reef Keeper to Apex. Night and Day..... Apex is almost endless with control..... You can do a very basic setup, or take it much further with some time investment and research.

 

[MSOEME2009]

There is no comparison from Reef Keeper to Apex. Night and Day..... Apex is almost endless with control..... You can do a very basic setup, or take it much further with some time investment and research.

I agree, and would love an Apex. However, you need to justify the cost. I already had a Kessil controller & Tunze ATO; I found myself asking "Is data logging worth $700?" I will most likely upgrade at some point, but not sure when that is. More importantly, I will also be able to get what I paid for my used RKL when I move on (pending nothing breaks). This is why I did not go this route from the beginning.

 

[DarthSimon]

Man, been reefing since 2007. Nothing is cheap in this hobby of ours
Apex gear is an investment for sure. You can buy apex gear incrementally, and start with an Apex Jr. Then down the line add more and more.

 

[mitch91175]

What I feel that Neptune’s Systems or anyone else for that matter fail to realize is that if you price it properly, everyone will likely buy it because of the price point. Look at Walmart. I know not apples to oranges, but what is their model, savings for the customer. Who here hasn’t shopped at Walmart at least once a month (Amazon too for that matter). Same thing applies to controllers. I am sure that most of the R&D has been realized for the controller itself. Why not price the 2016 Apex package at say $500 with say a $5/month Fusion subscription. How much more money do you think they will make doing a model like that versus the current one. Neptune’s Systems can hire me to show them how to maximize their profits. I am available.

How many alarm companies do the same thing? The problem with the aquarium industry is forward thinking. Everyone wants to charge as much as they can upfront and loose on residual. I know they have some serious overhead to run fusion.

But to implement a model like that they’d have to do something for those that already have the unit. Easy to solve. Just give everyone that purchased prior to the change a 2 year free subscription.

 

[Mortie31]

Before you buy have a thorough look at the GHL profilux 4, yes apex sells more units, but apex is American and Americans buy more controllers than the Europeans, and you tend to buy US products where you can, but is the APEX really better then the GHL??? certainly it’s not more reliable!!! they both have programming idiosyncrasies but once you know them are easy to use, GHL are seriously upping there cloud and remote software, but probably still a little behind apex.. build quality is undoubtably with GHL, cost is about the same, probe accuracy and reliability seems to be with GHL. You don’t need to buy endless modules with GHL, expansion is mainly built in, if in the future you need dosers, GHL are way better...
Now I’m going to hide from the APEX fanboys...

 

[DarthSimon]

Before you buy have a thorough look at the GHL profilux 4, yes apex sells more units, but apex is American and Americans buy more controllers than the Europeans, and you tend to buy US products where you can, but is the APEX really better then the GHL??? certainly it’s not more reliable!!! they both have programming idiosyncrasies but once you know them are easy to use, GHL are seriously upping there cloud and remote software, but probably still a little behind apex.. build quality is undoubtably with GHL, cost is about the same, probe accuracy and reliability seems to be with GHL. You don’t need to buy endless modules with GHL, expansion is mainly built in, if in the future you need dosers, GHL are way better...
Now I’m going to hide from the APEX fanboys...

LOL!!! That was funny.... You have a right to your opinion.... . Competition is good. Gives companies incentive to build and develop better products.....

 

[DarthSimon]

Sorry buy Apex at 799 is not over priced. For what you get?? Full Control over eight Outlets, 4 Probes to monitor PH, Conductivity, Temp and OPR, as well as free Cloud Platform??

 

[mitch91175]

Sorry buy Apex at 799 is not over priced. For what you get?? Full Control over eight Outlets, 4 Probes to monitor PH, Conductivity, Temp and OPR, as well as free Cloud Platform??

But that is your opinion whether it is over-priced or not right? To someone else that same $799 is over-priced in their eyes. I have 2 of them and yes they are pricey, but that was my decision to pay that price. If it were less pricey, I am sure the OP would already have it and this thread wouldn't exists. 2 of those probes I wouldn't and don't use for controlling anything because they are entirely to finicky. The pH and temp probes are fine.

 

[Greybeard]

I resisted owning a controller for a long time. Why? I'm an industrial automation software engineer. I do that kind of thing for a living... never really wanted it as part of my hobby, too.

While researching a heater controller for my new tank, I watched BRS's review of the RLK as a heater controller/light timer. What the heck. Bought a RKL. Over the next few months, as I figured out what it could do, I expanded to a 2nd PB4. After about 6 months, the thing started messing up. It'd loose communications between modules, ignore my timers, even left my heater stuck ON once (no damage, luckily).

I went to their website... no support phone number. Email sent to the published support email was returned as undeliverable. Repeated attempts to join their support forums went unanswered. If they offered any sort of reasonable support, I'd probably still be a happy Reefkeeper customer. They didn't.

I bought an Apex (classic).

That was several months ago. So far, so good, no troubles. I've expanded to a 2nd EB8, added a DIY breakout box, and increased my reliance on the controller to handle more and more automation. At this point, my Apex does the following:

Separate timers for blue, white, refugeum, and under tank cabinet lighting
Heater controller
Skimmer - over high level sensor in the sump turns it off, stays off for 10 minutes following a power outage or reboot.
ATO reservoir refill system, based on a high and low level sensor in reservoir + backup timer + water leak sensor
Powerhead timers
Water change logic that shuts down return pump, powerheads, ATO, dosing system, reactor pump and white light during a water change
Dosing pump (Kalk, ESV Calc+Alc) shuts off if pH varies outside window, or if sump high level sensor is tripped
Mixing station manually started refill system, opens RO/DI solenoid for 3 hours, starts mixing pump, continues running water until high level sensor is reached. Timer (and mechanical float valve) safeties in place.
Manually REMOTELY start/stop water change refill pump as needed from tankside
Email alerts if temp, pH, heartbeat alarms triggered, or if ATO reservoir refill or mixing station refill cycles take abnormally long

It's a helpful tool, that enables me to spend more time enjoying my reef, and less time messing with it. I'll never own a tank without one again.

 

[Mortie31]

LOL!!! That was funny.... You have a right to your opinion.... . Competition is good. Gives companies incentive to build and develop better products.....

Funny but true...

 

[ReefWithCare]

I think the apex is out of reach for mid-level hobbyist. I think if they lowered the price to $499 or $399 with a monitoring subscription of $39 - $59 a month more ppl would go for it.

I think have a subscription model to their equipment is a smart thing to put in for long time viability (profit) as there will be lower cost competitors eventually.

 

[DarthSimon]

That actually adds up to more money.... So you would give them 500 up front and 500-720 a year in subscription?? Neptune reads these posts, please don't give them any bright ideas..... lol

I think the apex is out of reach for mid-level hobbyist. I think if they lowered the price to $499 or $399 with a monitoring subscription of $39 - $59 a month more ppl would go for it.

I think have a subscription model to their equipment is a smart thing to put in for long time viability (profit) as there will be lower cost competitors eventually.