Neptune Trident Calcium & Magnesium Issues

[DoctaReef]

So I've seen this too, Ca and Mag creeping higher and higher for no good reason. One thing I tried was to reposition the tubes inside, I wondered if they were kinked a bit. I believe it actually changed the readings, next time it happens ill take photographic evidence before and after.
Anyone else think it could be the issue.?

 

[Huskymaniac]

I ordered new test kits for both Red Sea for mag and salifert for cal. I use hanna for all. Results below

hanna/trident=8.5/8.43 dkh
Salifert/trident= 440/493 calcium
Red Sea/Trident=1280/1423 mag

I used the calibration fluid a few times over the4 monthsI have owned the trident, and never seemed to get a good reading on cal/mag. I’ve even used my cal and mag test kits on the calibration fluid that came with the reagents and got pretty close to the measurements. When I run calibration it changes to those that I set off the calibration bottle and then I put it back in the tank and wait for the next test to run and it shoots
Back up. I’m just getting frustrated as to why these reading as so high and I’m blowing money on reagent?

Same boat. Alk is spot on to all test and is off on cal and mag. I compared to red sea and salifert kits.

 

[BluTang85]

has anyone tried calibrating the values To the trident off their other test kits?

 

[K7BMG]

OK everyone here it comes.
Like I said I needed to do a reagent change so this is the steps I go through to make sure its accurate.

Step one
Take results from regularly scheduled Trident test with old reagents. Saturday 4-11-20, 12:00 Pm
Alk was 8.6
Ca was 472
Mg was 1334

Via Apex tasks I change out all three reagents and let the Trident do its thing, priming and initializing.
Ran another full Trident test with the new reagents. Saturday 4-11-20, 2:45-3:00 Pm
Alk was 8.52
Ca was 541
Mg was 1358

Once completed again through tasks ran the calibration process. around 4:30 Pm.
The results matched the bottle.
Now I don't know if that's software results displayed or actual test result but it is whatever that is.
But I forgot to put the sample tube back in the display so when it did its 6 Pm Alk check Guess what, the sample was listed at 8.30 and the test result was 8.30 So it was the same.

Then I let everything go until the regularly scheduled full test at midnight.
The results of that first full test after the calibration.
Alk was 8.64
Ca was 454
Mg was 1338

So my results after the calibration were very close to the first test using the old reagents.

So now the comparison for a double check.

The trident went through the full test today at noon Sunday 4-12-20.
Alk is 8.56
Ca is 454
Mg is 1338
Then I follow up with a manual test comparison.

Hanna Checkers, first tested with calibration kits for accuracy, then to prevent error I test each twice.
Alk Test 1 8.5 Test 2 8.5
Ca Test 1 400 Test 2 385
Red Sea Mg test kit Test 1 1400 Test 2 1440

Perfect nope but I don't know if I see a problem here.
I don't know the +/- percentages here but for my purpose I think everything is good to go.
Some may argue one way or the other but I have no lack of confidence in MY Trident.

On the Red Sea kits I also want to point out that I have a magnetic stirrer.
The sample is constantly being stirred and for me it is much more accurate this way.
Mostly because I can see the color changes happen better.

I hope this gives some insight for some, and for others I am sure it will create controversy but it is what it is.

I took a sample from the water column I collected for the manual testing and am
sending it in to Triton for ICP testing tomorrow if the post office will allow entry.
I will post those results when I get them.
So we can see what happens with that.

Will the ICP results come close?
Any bets?

To be continued...........

 

[Natureboy95]

Calibration fluid is only good for 8 hours after opening it.
I have an open ticket with Neptune for this very reason. As soon as reagents B and C get down to around 30%, results of tests are off. They have not come up with a fix as of yet.
I would suggest opening a ticket also, this problem seems to be fairly common.
The Trident is suppose to make testing easier, but if we are getting false results, it does nothing for us. This problem is pushing up the cost of an already expensive way to test.

I agree 100% could not have said it better I am having the same issues and neptune is admitting there is a problem from it but wont say if it is software or reagent my mg is off by 100 and cal off by 50. I RECALIBRATE EACH NEW BOX AND IS READS THE CORRET CALIBRATION OFF THE FUILD BOTTLE BUT WHEN TESTING THE TANK THE NUMBERS WAY OFF, HANNA AND RED SEA TEST MATCH UP THE ISSUE HAS BEEN ON GOING!

 

[K7BMG]

Ok so life occurred and I was not able to get my sample sent off to Triton right after my reagent change and calibration.

But here's the results.
So on 4-18-2020 I took water samples from my tank and sent them to Triton.

My Trident readings that Saturday.
Ca 443
Mg 1334

My Triton results came in today
Ca 448
Mg 1433
As you can see the Trident is showing lower numbers that the ICP did on Mg., but the calcium is spot on.
I have a N-Doc test in the works and will compare that as well when I get it.

Attached is a PDF copy of all my results.
Tin is high but Tin is always high in most ICP tests, and honestly I don't know if it is a problem anyway. I have ignored the results and don't do any corrections for it.
But all in all this is my best test results across the board since I started doing ICP Testing.

 

[dbq5anlxj]

has anyone tried calibrating the values To the trident off their other test kits?

hey Did you get it fixed? I have the same issue now since last momth. I did recalibrate it but no luck. It's 100 off for Ca. Thanks

 

[TX_Punisher]

If you want to calibrate the Trident to your manual test kits, you can do that. You actually calibrate it with tank water. Hit calibrate and enter the values from your manual test kits in the calibration value boxes. This will calibrate the Trident to your handheld test kit values.

 

[kevin_e]

If you want to calibrate the Trident to your manual test kits, you can do that. You actually calibrate it with tank water. Hit calibrate and enter the values from your manual test kits in the calibration value boxes. This will calibrate the Trident to your handheld test kit values.

What if your handheld kit is wrong? Calibrating to a standard is the way to go, imo. Those handheld measurements require a lot of steps that can lead to imprecise measurements. A $600 piece of equipment billed as what it is should not need these work arounds.

 

[TX_Punisher]

What if your handheld kit is wrong? Calibrating to a standard is the way to go, imo. Those handheld measurements require a lot of steps that can lead to imprecise measurements. A $600 piece of equipment billed as what it is should not need these work arounds.

this is only if you want to have close to matching numbers. Not saying run out and do it.

in the case of the post above, the user was concerned his numbers for different test kits were quite different.

 

[K7BMG]

I have to admit and not being a chemist or lab person.
I do find it strange that all the test kits used in our hobby vary by so much, well a lot.
Never will understand this. people have made feeble attempts to help my disadvantaged intellect understand but.....

I understand that each kit does the testing using different reagents or methods. (OKAY)
But the end result should be the same no matter.

My feeble analogy here is my destination is the Washington Monument.
I can take a car, plane, train, bicycle, motorcycle, walk, skateboard, or what ever and the end result is I will be at the Washington Monument.

I mean is there a standard used or not? Are there many standards?

When someone tells me there is a standard this implies IMO that there is ONE yes 1 standard to which all are to be compared. (Washington Monument)
Otherwise my fellow humans this is NOT a standard, but a misuse of a word and implied thought.

So if there is a singular STANDARD every test kit no matter the choice of chemicals or methods should be able to be used and read extremely close to that STANDARD.

But what the heck do I know. Apparently not much.

 

[kevin_e]

this is only if you want to have close to matching numbers. Not saying run out and do it.

in the case of the post above, the user was concerned his numbers for different test kits were quite different.

Gotcha. I'd rather have accuracy over consistency, personally. What does Neptune rate their precision as relative to other tests? Better, worse?

 

[kevin_e]

I have to admit and not being a chemist or lab person.
I do find it strange that all the test kits used in our hobby vary by so much, well a lot.
Never will understand this. people have made feeble attempts to help my disadvantaged intellect understand but.....

I understand that each kit does the testing using different reagents or methods. (OKAY)
But the end result should be the same no matter.

My feeble analogy here is my destination is the Washington Monument.
I can take a car, plane, train, bicycle, motorcycle, walk, skateboard, or what ever and the end result is I will be at the Washington Monument.

I mean is there a standard used or not? Are there many standards?

When someone tells me there is a standard this implies IMO that there is ONE yes 1 standard to which all are to be compared. (Washington Monument)
Otherwise my fellow humans this is NOT a standard, but a misuse of a word and implied thought.

So if there is a singular STANDARD every test kit no matter the choice of chemicals or methods should be able to be used and read extremely close to that STANDARD.

But what the heck do I know. Apparently not much.

The issue, I think, has to do with our eyes (for color changing/comparison tests), the syringes and our general practices. Are you getting the same little spoon measurement of reagent from your Nyos as me? Are we reading the bottom of the plunger the same for the sample and reagent on the Red Sea test? Are you getting all of your reagent out of the packet for your Hanna Phosphate test?

 

[K7BMG]

The issue, I think, has to do with our eyes (for color changing/comparison tests), the syringes and our general practices. Are you getting the same little spoon measurement of reagent from your Nyos as me? Are we reading the bottom of the plunger the same for the sample and reagent on the Red Sea test? Are you getting all of your reagent out of the packet for your Hanna Phosphate test?

I completely understand the individual errors that are made.

I don't trust any of my LFS results at all. That's sound funny but its not.
The test station they have is a mess, the cuvette's are never cleaned.
They have a dozen cuvettes and who knows what test it was last used for.
They take the sample water and rinse out the cuvette dump it tap it on the towel that has never been replaced, fill it again and do the test.
Plus the fact they turn the cuvette over once or twice and never wait the full amount of time for the result.

But people are like well the owner said I was good?

 

[joseserrano]

Is there a walk through to manually calibrate the trident? Mine of off around 50 for cal, 75 mag, and 1 for dkh. This is per icp test, fauna marine and the Colorado company.

 

[User1]

Is there a walk through to manually calibrate the trident? Mine of off around 50 for cal, 75 mag, and 1 for dkh. This is per icp test, fauna marine and the Colorado company.

Each reagent box comes with calibration fluid. That is what you calibrate to. Not other tests.

 

[joseserrano]

Each reagent box comes with calibration fluid. That is what you calibrate to. Not other tests.

Have done that, and yeah

 

[User1]

Have done that, and yeah

I assumed you would have. However the question to be asked is which test is more accurate and what are the differences? When I do send off a ICP test (I use ATI) here is how I run them:

1. Collect cup (8 oz) water 5 minutes before Tridents next test
2. Fill up ATI test tubes with water at the same time as #1 above
3. Let the Trident run its tests
4. Run manual tests (Hanna Phosphate, Alk), update manual test log in Fusion
5. Mail off results to ATI

Wait a week or so and then compare manual, ATI, and the Tridents results. Each time I've done this I've been within the Tridents respected margin of error believe it or not. There are a few posts here in which case hobbyist asked similar questions - which numbers to calibrate with (fluid or other test results).

Personally you bought the Trident to provide the results and if you start comparing and chasing numbers you will find yourself asking which is correct. If you believe it is off I'd recommend sending a ticket into Neptune and let them take a look. Provide them the results to compare and take care of you should something be wonky.

Sorry I couldn't help more. Ticket though I would create. Can't hurt and they are pretty quick to respond.

 

[joseserrano]

I assumed you would have. However the question to be asked is which test is more accurate and what are the differences? When I do send off a ICP test (I use ATI) here is how I run them:

1. Collect cup (8 oz) water 5 minutes before Tridents next test
2. Fill up ATI test tubes with water at the same time as #1 above
3. Let the Trident run its tests
4. Run manual tests (Hanna Phosphate, Alk), update manual test log in Fusion
5. Mail off results to ATI

Wait a week or so and then compare manual, ATI, and the Tridents results. Each time I've done this I've been within the Tridents respected margin of error believe it or not. There are a few posts here in which case hobbyist asked similar questions - which numbers to calibrate with (fluid or other test results).

Personally you bought the Trident to provide the results and if you start comparing and chasing numbers you will find yourself asking which is correct. If you believe it is off I'd recommend sending a ticket into Neptune and let them take a look. Provide them the results to compare and take care of you should something be wonky.

Sorry I couldn't help more. Ticket though I would create. Can't hurt and they are pretty quick to respond.

So my concern is with my particular unit. I’m taking water samples to send off right after the trident did it’s test. It’s off. I trust icp much more. It’s a million dollar machine. Does someone have a step by step to manually (change the numbers to compensate for the off reading) calibrate the trident, or should I contact Neptune?

 

[robbyg]

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