Neptune Trident OR Mindstream

[User1]

Having a single test automation is awesome. Having two test automations that you can validate against each other is double awesome.

And double if not triple the price. 6 month reagent supply is 99 dollars. MS subscription is approximately 35 month.

35 x 12 + 200 = 620 year not including tax. You may require more reagents on the trident if you test more frequently. I don't know about you but that does not seem reasonable to me not to mention the numbers are derived using different testing methodologies.

Pick one unless you like toys or unsure of your water chemistry (no disrespect but I honestly can't see what looking at that much data is going to provide you).

 

[evolved]

Over 4 years ago, I found myself quite excited about the Mindstream. But quickly, the Kickstarter happened, with what seemed to me as a completely unreasonable goal. Still, I couldn't wait to visit their booth at MACNA in 2015. While the product seemed to have promise even then, reading through the lines in a conversation with them it was clear to me it would be a while, if ever, the product reached the market, provided the Kickstarter didn't reach the goal. And of course, it didn't.

Enter 2016, and Jim Welsh (a friend) starts showing on Facebook what he's cooking up at home, in his spare time. Quickly, I see what he's doing has real potential, and before long, he has a full-on working concept. And he keeps sharing more on Facebook, finally to the point where I feel the need to message him and effectively warn him that he needs to patent his device, before someone else rips it off (just a matter of time). I helped review his provisional patent, and shortly thereafter he signs a deal with Neptune. Then I have to wait 3 more years for the product to come to market! ;Dead

I nabbed a Trident, fair and square at retail price from BRS, at the end of the May this year. (sidenote - there are 3rd party website monitoring services out there that you can pay for to notify you nearly instantly if/when a website changes.) The Trident has been running pretty flawless ever since, and I'm just happy I don't have to wait anymore.

I know a bit more than how the sales material explains how the Trident works, and I have confidence in it's stated accuracy and precision numbers. Those numbers tend to get rather overlooked by many comparing these products on the market today, but they're quite important to me.

Seeing the two, very different, marketing strategies regarding bringing both of these products to market has been rather interesting, if not downright entertaining at times. But my real interest in the Mindstream died years ago.

 

[robbyg]

Over 4 years ago, I found myself quite excited about the Mindstream. But quickly, the Kickstarter happened, with what seemed to me as a completely unreasonable goal. Still, I couldn't wait to visit their booth at MACNA in 2015. While the product seemed to have promise even then, reading through the lines in a conversation with them it was clear to me it would be a while, if ever, the product reached the market, provided the Kickstarter didn't reach the goal. And of course, it didn't.

Enter 2016, and Jim Welsh (a friend) starts showing on Facebook what he's cooking up at home, in his spare time. Quickly, I see what he's doing has real potential, and before long, he has a full-on working concept. And he keeps sharing more on Facebook, finally to the point where I feel the need to message him and effectively warn him that he needs to patent his device, before someone else rips it off (just a matter of time). I helped review his provisional patent, and shortly thereafter he signs a deal with Neptune. Then I have to wait 3 more years for the product to come to market! ;Dead

I nabbed a Trident, fair and square at retail price from BRS, at the end of the May this year. (sidenote - there are 3rd party website monitoring services out there that you can pay for to notify you nearly instantly if/when a website changes.) The Trident has been running pretty flawless ever since, and I'm just happy I don't have to wait anymore.

I know a bit more than how the sales material explains how the Trident works, and I have confidence in it's stated accuracy and precision numbers. Those numbers tend to get rather overlooked by many comparing these products on the market today, but they're quite important to me.

Seeing the two, very different, marketing strategies regarding bringing both of these products to market has been rather interesting, if not downright entertaining at times. But my real interest in the Mindstream died years ago.

Very cool that you knew the guy who designed the Trident. I hope he got the money he deserved. Not many things go from idea to actually being sold. Most end up going nowhere.

Thats why I never get excited about products that have not been launched. I have seen way to much Vaporware over the decades to get overly excited about anything that is in development. I only gave the MindStream a second look when it actually launched and even then I wanted to see someone have one in their hands and say it works.

The Trident model is not a mind blowing concept. The whole vial being read by a spectrometer was around from about the early 1990's when my brother had his LaMotte test kit/Briefcase. Hanna made it more affordable several years ago and as an early adopter I had the privilege to discuss it with their lead chemist.

Hanna had thought of bringing an automated unit to market but abandoned the idea because they said "The Vials that the reagents run through got stained in their long term testing" He said they concluded that the units would have to be returned to them to have the vials and hoses replaced way to often to make sense for them. Now that is Hanna and my guess is that they are not to big on the idea of setting up a huge service dept for one product. I guess Neptune has their own plans for servicing the units when the time comes.

 

[User1]

I guess Neptune has their own plans for servicing the units when the time comes.

Everybody seems to always second guess reagents but here we are today, as a hobby, using reagents in most of our tests. My point is that Neptune has been up front from the beginning about service. Initially they said to send in the unit then later said they are looking into the possibility of buying it and doing it yourself. Options - all people need and also awareness. Sounds like a win win to me.

Scuba divers are familiar with this concept as we send in our gear for inspections at least once a year. Full tear down and replacement every 1 and 1/2 if normal diving. Those diving more frequently even more. Life support is a real deal when you are 200 ft below the surface. Heck, I send my gear in even if I don't dive. My point is service is service be it a tire, an oil change, a regulator, or a vile and tubing because I'm running automated tests.

We don't know what the Mindstream is going to require but I do know this after looking at my Seneye unit - it will need maintenance because life will grow on the surface areas in the water. There is no stopping it. Bristle worm, pods, algae, and debris. Not knocking it but calling a spade a spade as I see it.

Note - not saying you are knocking it or calling foul. Just saying the reagent thing has run its course. Reagents are fine.

 

[robbyg]

Everybody seems to always second guess reagents but here we are today, as a hobby, using reagents in most of our tests. My point is that Neptune has been up front from the beginning about service. Initially they said to send in the unit then later said they are looking into the possibility of buying it and doing it yourself. Options - all people need and also awareness. Sounds like a win win to me.

Don't be fooled by the occasional DIY post you see on the forums. If this was the 1980's or 90's I would say yes many people will fix it themselves. I have noticed that most people today are not even sure where the dip stick is in their vehicle. I would be shocked if even 10% of the Trident owners are willing to pull down the unit to the bones and put back in new vials and all new tubing and possibly replacing pump parts. Neptune might offer a kit but most people are going to be sending it back and paying whatever they ask for the refit. The fact that Mindstream and GHL Ion Director have both moved from reagents is because reagents are not very practical if you want near real time water testing. Ultimately that would be were I think the hobby is headed.

 

[User1]

Don't be fooled by the occasional DIY post you see on the forums. If this was the 1980's or 90's I would say yes many people will fix it themselves. I have noticed that most people today are not even sure where the dip stick is in their vehicle. I would be shocked if even 10% of the Trident owners are willing to pull down the unit to the bones and put back in new vials and all new tubing and possibly replacing pump parts. Neptune might offer a kit but most people are going to be sending it back and paying whatever they ask for the refit. The fact that Mindstream and GHL Ion Director have both moved from reagents is because reagents are not very practical if you want near real time water testing. Ultimately that would be were I think the hobby is headed.

Well, you did make me giggle about the dip stick. And I agree with that.

I can't say who is willing to put down what and send in a unit for repair. Time is money and we all have our own cost. Personally speaking because I own a Trident and can sort of see what is going on inside it isn't going to be that big of a deal to replace on my own. The good news is that those who got their unit before me will have already experienced it and will share So easier on me.

I don't know. We disagree on reagents. Not a big deal. Manual tests use them and will continue to do so. Cheapest option on the table not without its own faults. Those who want automation or controllers will pick what works for them. Near real time data is just noise to me. People have had successful reef tanks going on years now without near real time data and little to no testing. I guess we will see.

 

[kkiel02]

Trident is pretty easy to get nowadays. After BRS got rid of their list, I started looking on other sites and found one pretty quick(then quickly after BRS had them for sale as well). Wish I had done it sooner. So far I absolutely love it but it’s only about a week in. I will do the diy kit when it’s time so I’ll let y’all know how easy it is. I’d love for Hanna to come out with the nitrate unit they said they were working on. That way I could test phosphates and nitrates that way. I doubt they are too worried about the vials since you can buy reagents for their test kits. If they were worried about it they’d make you replace the whole kit including vials. Unless they are just trusting their customers judgement on when to replace them which is a bad idea.

 

[SDJustin]

And double if not triple the price. 6 month reagent supply is 99 dollars. MS subscription is approximately 35 month.

35 x 12 + 200 = 620 year not including tax. You may require more reagents on the trident if you test more frequently. I don't know about you but that does not seem reasonable to me not to mention the numbers are derived using different testing methodologies.

Pick one unless you like toys or unsure of your water chemistry (no disrespect but I honestly can't see what looking at that much data is going to provide you).

Yeah. none of this is cheap. I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford this stuff and have a wife that is... mostly... understanding.

Also agreed, "pick one" is the most rational approach. If I was rational I'd spend any extra money on commercial real estate investments or index funds or gold or whatever, and all free time doing STEM projects with my kiddo or learning a new language or maybe participating in a reef conservation non profit. Instead I'm crazy about creating a few square feet of reef in my home, working on it almost daily, and staring at it for hours on end.

I also LOVE data. I love the challenge of maintaining great water parameters. And good data is actually a really hard challenge. And having multiple measures is a great way of establishing/verifying good data.

I *hope* that mindstream is a great product and it ships at scale soon.

Hope in one hand and sh#$ in the other and see which one fills up first! LOL

Happy Reefing!

 

[User1]

Yeah. none of this is cheap. I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford this stuff and have a wife that is... mostly... understanding.

Also agreed, "pick one" is the most rational approach. If I was rational I'd spend any extra money on commercial real estate investments or index funds or gold or whatever, and all free time doing STEM projects with my kiddo or learning a new language or maybe participating in a reef conservation non profit. Instead I'm crazy about creating a few square feet of reef in my home, working on it almost daily, and staring at it for hours on end.

I also LOVE data. I love the challenge of maintaining great water parameters. And good data is actually a really hard challenge. And having multiple measures is a great way to establishing/verifying good data.

I *hope* that mindstream is a great product and it ships at scale soon.

Hope in one hand and sh#$ in the other and see which one fills up first! LOL

Happy Reefing!

Hope it didn't come across that I was judging or questioning why one would have two. I apologize if that is how it sounded.

I am all about small business and how they work, the risks, the rewards, etc. I put MS in that category and try to be as unbiased as possible because I do own another product. Thus try and list what it would take to get one vs the other starting from scratch. About the only thing I honestly struggle with the MS is the upfront payment. That continues to boggle my mind even with some of the more recent delays. However, that is "my" issue and not everyone else

I think the good news for all three players is that there is clearly a demand for this sort of thing. Happy reefing also to you.

 

[bam123]

I sent an email today cancelling my order with Mindstream. They did not return an email sent a week ago and did not return my phone call yesterday. I am done with that company holding my money. Hopefully, everyone else on the waiting list will get theirs by Christmas.

 

[Darrell Brady]

I sent an email today cancelling my order with Mindstream. They did not return an email sent a week ago and did not return my phone call yesterday. I am done with that company holding my money. Hopefully, everyone else on the waiting list will get theirs by Christmas.

Did you ever get a refund?