alexnyc22
Active Member
If I recall correctly on the Mrsaltwatertank video, he said you can test more or less if you want. I’m assuming you can control the frequency of the tests if that’s the case.
Neptune trident
- Thread starter reefwiser
- Start date
- Tagged users None
If I recall correctly on the Mrsaltwatertank video, he said you can test more or less if you want. I’m assuming you can control the frequency of the tests if that’s the case.
Potatohead
Valuable Member
I guess another question I would have is whether dosing is always going to be in a 4/2/2 ratio (say, reduced to 2/1/1) or if you can change it entirely. If the latter, that screws up the "reagent ratio" and in that case are the reagents available separately?
I am not really concerned with cost but I don't particularly like waste either.
I am not really concerned with cost but I don't particularly like waste either.
MnFish1
10K Club member
Would like some comments/discussion on why anyone would need/want to test these things 3x/day. If one tests 3/day the reagents last 2 months (reported). If a person only tests Mg every month, will the Mg reagent last 180 months? (same for the other tests depending on how often a person tests). I know Neptune has said that this 'should' be the case, but the system is in use such a short period of time how do they know the reagents will still be as accurate? Most 'experts' don't recommend testing anywhere near 3 times/day for these parameters. So what is the real benefit - besides another 'gadget' that people can play with program and complain about when it fails somehow? I suppose that if a person only tested 'rarely' with the Trident, it would be harder to tell if there was an error or a 'Real value' so there would be some benefit to see the 'trend'. It sounds like a great idea - but with the track record of the startup problems with the Apex 2016, I wouldn't buy it 'quickly'.
Potatohead
Valuable Member
I don't mean to pile on here but testing every day for those two parameters just doesn't make any sense, and here's why:
Say your tank consumes 1.5 dkh per day, which is a pretty average amount for mixed reef/sps dominant tank. Calcium consumption in this case (on paper) is about 10ppm and about 1.5 ppm mag. The noise of the test is 10 ppm so it doesn't make sense to test calcium more than every second day or mag more than once a week. If your tank is very high demand say 3 dkh per day it makes sense to test calcium once per day and mag maybe twice a week.
So, if the reagents expire any quicker than at least three or four months, it's really wasteful.
Maximus
Valuable Member
I'm sure there's a shelf life for the reagents before they expire. I agree, I wouldn't want to test each parameter more than once a day but I can see the benefits of testing multiple times a day, especially at start up on a new tank. Once the tank gets into a predictable rhythm, then I don't see the need for multiple tests daily.
Here's what Terance says in the Mr. Saltwater Tank video (~3:20):
"So there's 3 reagent bottles in the unit. Basically the way it's designed is in 30 days...you will be able to go for 30 days and use up those reagent bottles. If you want to do more time, you can. You can set the tim...you know, the tests more, you know, infrequently. If you want to do, you know 10, 12 tests in one day, you can. But in doing 4 alkalinity tests in one day and 2 calcium and 2 magnesium tests, at that rate, that...one of those...one set of bottles will last a whole month...."
There is no mention of reagent shelflife, but it seems like they can last longer than 30 days ("do more time" than the 30 days) by setting the testing interval to be less frequent than the default 4x/2x/2x ("set the...tests...more...infrequently").
"So there's 3 reagent bottles in the unit. Basically the way it's designed is in 30 days...you will be able to go for 30 days and use up those reagent bottles. If you want to do more time, you can. You can set the tim...you know, the tests more, you know, infrequently. If you want to do, you know 10, 12 tests in one day, you can. But in doing 4 alkalinity tests in one day and 2 calcium and 2 magnesium tests, at that rate, that...one of those...one set of bottles will last a whole month...."
There is no mention of reagent shelflife, but it seems like they can last longer than 30 days ("do more time" than the 30 days) by setting the testing interval to be less frequent than the default 4x/2x/2x ("set the...tests...more...infrequently").
Well said. This product is close to a year away from being released and everyone is already freaking out without even knowing all the details. Chill out!
ShawnSaucier
Well-Known Member
I'm sure Apex has this all figured or working on it. It probably comes to the amount of regent used for each separate test( I.e Alk 1ml regent , CA/MG 4 ml regent)
ShawnSaucier
Well-Known Member
Amen! There is a long time to wait for this, and we are all excited, but this is just the beginning of the info train that Apex has released. All we can do is wait until next summer
MnFish1
10K Club member
Considering the problems you had upgrading to the 2016, Im surprised you're so up to rely on a brand new system. After my experience with the 2016, Im not sure I would start using this (as a means to dose or stop dosing of ca/alk/mg) until it had been out and tested for at least a year. I had a story similar to yours, 2 crashes based on a faulty chip in my first 2016 and a problem with glitches after a firmware upgrade. This cost thousands of dollars, hours of time and months from which to recover. I sold all my modules, use my Radion reef link to program lights, my gyre is programmed by the gyre controller (rather than the apex module). Dosing is through an independent dose. If Apex and its programming fails, it affects my tank very little. I love the ability to monitor things (this makes the trident an expensive toy) and I like the ability to turn outlets off/on for maintenance. But it amazes me how so many people rely on this controller to do extremely complex things with their tanks.
I just don't see why its not compatible with the older apex models. The guy who designed it did so with an older model apex, so why did they design this one to not work with it? I have over $1000 In my current apex system, and I am not like a lot of you. It took me years to piece it together, i have a limited reefing budget and it was a huge purchase for me. And it sucks that after a couple of years mine is out of date.
I know people upgrade their $1000 phones every 2 years, i do too. But when I buy a new phone it's financed over 2 years and only costs me 40 a month. There is absolutely no way I can justify buying a new apex every couple of years. It's just too expensive. I know that's a "me" problem but i doubt I'm alone.
I can't hate them for it, it's a great way to force people to keep buying their $800 systems. I'm just a little disappointed that they told us they would continue making products that are compatable with their classic units. Then the 2nd new item they come out with is exclusivly for their new models. Kinda bs in my opinion, and makes me seriously question their commitment to their customers and long time users.
I know people upgrade their $1000 phones every 2 years, i do too. But when I buy a new phone it's financed over 2 years and only costs me 40 a month. There is absolutely no way I can justify buying a new apex every couple of years. It's just too expensive. I know that's a "me" problem but i doubt I'm alone.
I can't hate them for it, it's a great way to force people to keep buying their $800 systems. I'm just a little disappointed that they told us they would continue making products that are compatable with their classic units. Then the 2nd new item they come out with is exclusivly for their new models. Kinda bs in my opinion, and makes me seriously question their commitment to their customers and long time users.
MnFish1
10K Club member
Except maybe the discussion will help in the development of the product in ways Neptune hadn't thought of - before reading some of potential user's concerns. Consider it a free 'pre-marketing survey' for Neptune. Complaints/suggestions people make concerning things that matter to them is BENEFICIAL to the company, and its beneficial to a discussion board. Complaining about discussing things seems to detract from a discussion board - so perhaps you should 'chill out'.
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2016
- Messages
- 554
- Reaction score
- 254
I love my Apexes. I have 3 systems, 2 classic one 2016 (one of which was purchased right before the 2016 announcement and subsequent discounts) one set of WAVs, like 4 PMUPs, 1 ATK, 3 DOS, their PAR sensor, three WXMs (ask me about crossed radio signals sometime) even on the NSI for the COR pump (which I hope to install this weekend).
I think the term 'fanboy' would be putting it lightly. As the Trident isn't what I'd call cheap, I will likely only put it on one system, at least to start out. Just so happens that the system that I'd like to have it on the most is running the oldest Apex (old black label head unit). I don't relish the idea of shelling out $800 for a new apex for that system, especially not unplugging and rewiring everything, but I don't see that as enough of a blocker to prevent me from biting the bullet to get the Trident when it comes out. The reality with all technology is that it gets outdated and needs to be replaced eventually. Sure it sucks to have to spend money to upgrade, but it's not like anyone is forcing you to have the latest piece of gear.
I am very excited for Q2 of 2018!!! Nice work Neptune!
I think the term 'fanboy' would be putting it lightly. As the Trident isn't what I'd call cheap, I will likely only put it on one system, at least to start out. Just so happens that the system that I'd like to have it on the most is running the oldest Apex (old black label head unit). I don't relish the idea of shelling out $800 for a new apex for that system, especially not unplugging and rewiring everything, but I don't see that as enough of a blocker to prevent me from biting the bullet to get the Trident when it comes out. The reality with all technology is that it gets outdated and needs to be replaced eventually. Sure it sucks to have to spend money to upgrade, but it's not like anyone is forcing you to have the latest piece of gear.
I am very excited for Q2 of 2018!!! Nice work Neptune!
Reefer525XL
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2017
- Messages
- 834
- Reaction score
- 604
It would be $240 a year since $40 gets you reagent for two months.
Sleepydoc
Valuable Member
We have a Honda Odyssey and an Audi A4. The Odyssey is a great car, but man does the Audi drive nice...
Terrence does actually say in the video that you can run the tests more infrequently. Shelf life of the reagents is key here. As it is, the kits we use have a limited shelf life and go bad with time. (Lab test design is not always straight forward - you want reagents that are easy to use, safe, reliable and don't degrade.) Once you've opened the bottle and exposed the chemicals to oxygen, they start degrading and eventually test results will be compromised. I can guarantee you one of the parameters Neptune has factored in is result reliability - if they have people getting inaccurate results from old reagents their product would rapidly get a very bad rap.
Totally agree that we all need to wait until the units actually ship to draw conclusions. We're all doing a lot of assuming and speculation here...
Something else I thought of regarding the classic/2016 compatibility issue was the manufacturing costs of the Trident unit. If they designed the system to off load the processing to the the Apex controller, they could get by with fewer components in the Trident unit itself, making the Trident unit cheaper. I have to say, given the cost of what's available now for testing only alkalinity, $600 to test 3 parameters is pretty good.
Potatohead
Valuable Member
Right, this was clarified a bit later on but unfortunately I cannot go back and edit that post anymore.
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2016
- Messages
- 554
- Reaction score
- 254
Considering it, but not 100% sure I can. Biggest limiter is the lack of internet jack in that room and difficulty in accessing an outlet to add a wifi modem. I'm also running stuff off the Link ports and would have to buy a 1Link for that room. Then there is all of the programming I'd have to move from one system to another. Which I will likely have to do to upgrade anyways, but only once instead of twice. Rewiring both setups will be a pain as well. Then what happens if my Gen1 Apex finally bites the dust after swapping two systems? Might as well just upgrade the one system, right?
