In your original post you never stated whether the unit was working correctly to begin with. How am I supposed to know this unless you give me all the details?
I can only comment on what I read, my friend.
Netpune DOS known problems Coral loss
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In your original post you never stated whether the unit was working correctly to begin with. How am I supposed to know this unless you give me all the details?
I can only comment on what I read, my friend.
OP
OP
BNUTTHEHUT
Active Member
I did in my third or fourth post. It worked great for about 6 months. If you voted yes please respond with your issue so others know.In your original post you never stated whether the unit was working correctly to begin with. How am I supposed to know this unless you give me all the details?
I can only comment on what I read, my friend.
If you had a calcium reactor, this would have never happened, but you could have the same result when the CO2 bottle would run empty.
If you dosed manually, this would have never happened, but you could forget to dose or even dose twice.
If you monitored your tank regularly, this would have never happened, but then again, you could have a faulty test kit.
There are a million ways to loose a SPS tank. You just identified another one.
I think that Hut is right. If a company makes a product, the product defects and causes damage from being used regardless of whether it's a first run product or has been on the market for years, they are liable for the damages from that product. Neptune should make it right with their customers and offer to replace corals damaged for those affected.
If I buy a product, I simply expect it to work and work as advertised and promised.
If I buy a product, I simply expect it to work and work as advertised and promised.
Think about what you are saying.
Guy crashes car into light pole. Power goes out, reef dies, do you sue? Driver or electric company? Reef equipment company because the product didn't provide battery back up.
Guy on R2R give you bad advice, you take that bad advice, you kill everything. Do you sue? R2R member or revtree?
Apex notifies you that your chiller is not coming on. Temp is 84 and rising. You rush home, you motor fails in your car. And you don't make it home in time to save the reef. Do you sue? Chiller company for product failing? Car manufacturer? Maybe Neptune for notifying you in the first place causing you to rush hence damaging you car?
Where does it end?
OP
OP
BNUTTHEHUT
Active Member
If the guy crashes into the light poll that had a recall on his car for bad brakes that the car manufacture didn't notify him about. Then yes you sue.
Im not saying Im 100% going to sue them. Although Apex has know about this for two days and failed to make this right. They haven't even sent the parts to fix the doser. Im upset because this is a know issue and they failed to make that information readily available. Its literally plugged into there server on fusion. They could have easily sent an email to apex users that there was a problem. Why dont they have a product registration card?
ja4207
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I don't blame Neptune but do thank you for this thread. First I've heard of this and I have tw units that fall under this.
Only problem is proof of purchase. Is that a receipt only? I've lost both I believe.
Only problem is proof of purchase. Is that a receipt only? I've lost both I believe.
What do you mean it back siphoned? Tank water got back into your dosing containers? If so, the only way this could have occured is if you installed your lines below the water (which is a big NO NO).
I have thought about what I'm saying because I understand how civil laws, as well as criminal, work.
The power went out because of the driver. You sue the driver for damages. If the backup battery you installed for the reef malfunctions- key operative word- because of the driver, you still sue the driver.
If damages occur at the advice from someone, they can't be held responsible. You have no case in negligence because you won't be able to show a duty of care. However, if they were paid for that advice and that is service they provided, you follow the advice, and wipe out your tank, they can be held responsible. Then, and only then, do you have a case.
Hopefully you set up your Apex to turn off heaters, you have a fan installed and it kicks on. Anyways, you probably don't. So you take the chiller company to task for the damages that may have occurred to your reef. Your car has nothing to do with the initial malfunction of the device. Then you take the car company to task for malfunctioning within warranty.
You can only take a company to task within a reasonable time of buying a device. Unless it says can last such and such long. If, however, it doesn't, you take the company and you hold them responsible. Whatever the reasonable time outside of a warranty remains to be determined. If a device malfunctions in 10 years, and only has a 1 year warranty, there isn't much you can do. Also, statute of limitations comes into play. Another thing to consider is your state laws.
If that occurred, then the device OP was using wasn't used in a proper manner in accordance with setup. At that point, it becomes clear the responsibility lays squarely on OP's shoulders.
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Round up the posse! There's gonna be a witch hunt tonight!
I'd still argue that the hobbyist is liable.
He chose to put all faith in a mechanism and is trying to escape responsibility. Ultimately you as a pet owner are responsible for your pets.
I'll grab my pitchfork!
I'm not saying that he has zero responsibility in ensuring the equipment works. If he puts his faith in a device that he just bought, there is a reasonable expectation that it work so long as he did everything according to directions. Legally, a company can be held liable if something went wonky with that device, most especially if it's a defect. It's a like a lawyer's wet dream! More so if loss of human life occurred. Does it make it right? It's a gray area for sure.
So let's say that he does take them to court. There is zero guarantee the judge/jury will grant him a win. Even if he has a 100% solid case. Sometimes a case hinges on how the judge feels.
I'm not saying that he has zero responsibility in ensuring the equipment works. If he puts his faith in a device that he just bought, there is a reasonable expectation that it work so long as he did everything according to directions. Legally, a company can be held liable if something went wonky with that device, most especially if it's a defect. It's a like a lawyer's wet dream! More so if loss of human life occurred. Does it make it right? It's a gray area for sure.
So let's say that he does take them to court. There is zero guarantee the judge/jury will grant him a win. Even if he has a 100% solid case. Sometimes a case hinges on how the judge feels.
DaveMorris
MACNA2016 Co-Chair
Just because the serial number says 5000 certainly doesn't mean that they made over 5000 of them. I do not use an Apex so obviously I don't use a DOS, however I knew about the bad rollers right after the problem came up. That knowledge was just from lurking here on R2R and on RC. Good luck with the lawsuit. You will not win. The company has absolutely no liability at all. In fact, it probably has some fine print somewhere saying something like that in a manual or online. Sorry for your loss, but I would just move on.
DrTerro
Active Member
Truthfully I think admin needs to get in here and stop the flaming of the op. This isn't that other site where you can just destroy the op and not contribute to what the op posted. Either answer yes and explain or no and move on.
I don't feel the OP is being flamed, just peoples differing opinions and hard truths, no mods required.
I agree that some aquarium product manufacturers/suppliers knowingly continue to sell products with known defects. (e.g. Aqua medic titanium heaters) and i think Neptune could/should have done more to alert owners to potential problems. Their faulty product, they should do all they can to make it good. I must admit I'm not 100% confident in my Apex, little niggling doubts in the back of my mind. (I don't have a DOS so haven't voted)
It sucks especially if livestock suffers the consequences, and if i have a similar situation i will NEVER buy a product from that manufacturer again. If the seller does nothing to help i don't shop there anymore. Vote with your feet.
One thing i wonder is how would peoples opinions differ if the DOS had had an electrical fault and caused a fire.
Definately sue then hey?
OP hope all is well in your system now.
I agree that some aquarium product manufacturers/suppliers knowingly continue to sell products with known defects. (e.g. Aqua medic titanium heaters) and i think Neptune could/should have done more to alert owners to potential problems. Their faulty product, they should do all they can to make it good. I must admit I'm not 100% confident in my Apex, little niggling doubts in the back of my mind. (I don't have a DOS so haven't voted)
It sucks especially if livestock suffers the consequences, and if i have a similar situation i will NEVER buy a product from that manufacturer again. If the seller does nothing to help i don't shop there anymore. Vote with your feet.
One thing i wonder is how would peoples opinions differ if the DOS had had an electrical fault and caused a fire.
Definately sue then hey?
OP hope all is well in your system now.
-Logzor
2500 Club Member
What is the appeal of these new Chinese pumps that need to go through trail periods to work the bugs out when there are already time-tested dosing pumps ready for purchase? I've been running my Spectrapure Litermeter pumps without issues for over 7 years now. They need to be oiled once or twice a year but other than that they run flawlessly. Good marketing I guess?
Too bad the manufacturer focused on making a snazzy looking dosing pump rather than one that is reliable. I blame the manufacturer but unfortunately you're never going to see any compensation.
Too bad the manufacturer focused on making a snazzy looking dosing pump rather than one that is reliable. I blame the manufacturer but unfortunately you're never going to see any compensation.
OP
OP
BNUTTHEHUT
Active Member
No liquid was held in the line and back siphoned into the container. Not tank water. the lines were not installed below the water level. actually Neptune saw a picture of my setup and agreed it was installed correctly.
Also to clarify the vote, only vote if you owned a faulty Neptune DOS and had it fixed. Not if you own one and it didn't have problems.
OP
OP
BNUTTHEHUT
Active Member
Actually they have manufacturered over 8000 units
DrTerro
Active Member
Do you believe your faulty Neptune DOS caused coral, fish or invertebrate death in you aquarium?
This is the OP original question. So if you have a DOS and you have occurred any deaths, then you cast a vote to the poll. If not; you are giving your opinion and not helping or contributing to the poll. So yes people are flaming the OP and admin should put a stop to it.
This is the OP original question. So if you have a DOS and you have occurred any deaths, then you cast a vote to the poll. If not; you are giving your opinion and not helping or contributing to the poll. So yes people are flaming the OP and admin should put a stop to it.
acolotto
Active Member
No one is really flaming him, people are just not agreeing with him because its ridiculous to think neptune is at fault, he would never win a lawsuit, they know they are faulty, they have sticky's on there website letting people know. Also these stickies were posted before the OP ran into his issues. There you go lawsuit is done with those two sentences there. It absolutely sucks he lost coral, but people respond with their opinions as typically done in forums, and just because you have the opposite opinion doesn't mean they are flaming the op. Its just some truth bombs being thrown at him that you can never rely on a piece of equipment to take over your responsibilities. I work in 3d modelling and creating renders, if i have something due on Monday, i send it to render on Friday and check on it all weekend because failures happen, because coming in on Monday and then figuring out something went wrong isn't good enough. My BOSS would not accept "Well, we have these top of the line computers, and they crashed, so its windows fault." as an answer, for why my work was not done. Using mechanical equipment, you should expect failures to happen, thus the need to check everything regularly. There is no difference then if 2 yrs down the road one of the rollers failed, he wouldn't know any different from then and now, because it seems he doesn't check his equipment regularly.
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