New additions dead

[Knamei]

Yesterday I bought 2 emerald crabs, 3 anthias, and 2 cleaner shrimp. This am I woke up to 1 of each dead, and a couple hours later, the other emerald crab and 1 other anthia dead. The anthia is super pale and open mouth breathing and its hard to tell about the other cleaner shrimp but I don't think its going to make it either. I drip acclimated them for over a hour. Can anyone tell me what happened?

DT details: Recently just upgraded to a 55 gal display with what I believe is about 20-30 gal sump. 2 ocellaris clowns, 1 royal gramma, yellow watchman, pistol shrimp. No CUC as they died after the move (I think because I did not acclimate them properly). Water params as of this morning are 80-81 F, 0 ammonia/nitrite, 2-4ppm nitrate, SG: 1.025, pH: 8.0.

EDIT: the 3rd anthias just died. Did I acclimate incorrectly? I checked the sg to make sure they matched. The temps were off by 1-2 degrees though. Any ideas?

 

[TheEngineer]

The presence of nitrate shows the tank is not ready for inhabitants. Did you just recently move this tank? Can you return the animals still alive?

 

[WVNed]

The presence of nitrate shows the tank is not ready for inhabitants. Did you just recently move this tank? Can you return the animals still alive?

Have you had your coffee yet?

 

[TheEngineer]

Have you had your coffee yet?

Lol. Autocorrect from nitrite. Grumble grumble. And I’m having my coffee now

 

[GQuinn]

When you say “recently upgraded” how recent? Did you move rock from your old tank to this?

 

[theMeat]

Would suspect your parameters are dif then where you’re lfs keeps there’s, namely salinity

 

[Knamei]

Lol. Autocorrect from nitrite. Grumble grumble. And I’m having my coffee now

There was 0 nitrites in the tank

 

[Knamei]

When you say “recently upgraded” how recent? Did you move rock from your old tank to this?

Last week and yes everything was moved from the previous tank, rocks and sand. I had the new tank filled most of the way with salt water and then moved the rocks over to avoid die off

 

[TheEngineer]

There was 0 nitrites in the tank

I see. I misread your post. How are you testing? Sudden loss of all animals would indicate something is quite far off.

 

[Knamei]

I see. I misread your post. How are you testing? Sudden loss of all animals would indicate something is quite far off.

For ammonia and nitrite I use api but nitrate I use Red Sea. The only ones that died though are the new additions. The others that I have in the tank have been doing just fine besides my cuc

 

[eatbreakfast]

How long was the previous system setup? Anytime I have moved a tank and used the existing sand I have found nutrients to be way out of whack for quite awhile. What kits did you use to test ammonia/nitrite/nitrate? Did you wait the necessary time for the tests?

Losing both fish and inverts speaks to water chemistry issues.

 

[Knamei]

How long was the previous system setup? Anytime I have moved a tank and used the existing sand I have found nutrients to be way out of whack for quite awhile. What kits did you use to test ammonia/nitrite/nitrate? Did you wait the necessary time for the tests?

Losing both fish and inverts speaks to water chemistry issues.

It had been set up since December. I know it’s super sudden changes but I have been keeping up with water changes and watching parameters weekly

 

[Flippers4pups]

Unless there was visable signs of parasites or disease on the anthias, an hour drip acclimation for the fish was too long. But not for the shrimp.
Why? Ammonia build up in acclimation bucket.

I'm a firm believer in temperature exclamation for 20 minutes floating bag in water, releasing them into a bucket with the bagged water. Then using the "Dixie cup" water transfer method for acclimation. Using two small cups, one for taking water out and one for putting water in.

Taking a cup of water from the DT/QT and adding it to the acclacclima bucket. Then removing a cup of water and discarding it from the acclimation bucket. Do this process every 3 to 4 minutes, for a total of 15 to 20 minutes. Then release fish into the DT/QT.

This process keeps ammonia from building up in the acclimation bucket.

The use of a water Conditioner such as prime or amquel in the acclamation bucket is highly not advisable. Why? If the LFS used copper in their holding systems, that water is in the bag the fish came home in. Adding a water conditioner to the water in the acclamation bucket can cause the copper to become 10 times more toxic.

I have used this method for years and have never lost a fish during acclimation. Disease or parasite, that's different.

Hope this helps.

 

[Flippers4pups]

At least one hour exclamation for inverts is advisable. They produce very little ammonia during acclimation. The reason for long acclamation periods for them is to reduce the possibility of osmotic shock. Sudden changes in salinity for inverts causes their tissue to rupture inside. Damage is permanent or death. this is why very long acclimation periods for inverts is highly advisable.

 

[Knamei]

At least one hour exclamation for inverts is advisable. They produce very little ammonia during acclimation. The reason for long acclamation periods for them is to reduce the possibility of osmotic shock. Sudden changes in salinity for inverts causes their tissue to rupture inside. Damage is permanent or death. this is why very long acclimation periods for inverts is highly advisable.

Do you think that it was just ammonia burn? During the drive and when I was trying to get them into the dt they were super stressed and pale. They seemed fine after 30 minutes or so swimming around the tank

 

[vetteguy53081]

I suspect acclimation, salinity and water quality as contributors.

Have your water tested by a second party such as your LFS to compare with your readings. Anthias are salinity sensitive at intro and I do and recommend acclimation over Two hours. For the crabs, at least 45 mins via drip method or similar.

 

[Knamei]

I suspect acclimation, salinity and water quality as contributors.

Have your water tested by a second party such as your LFS to compare with your readings. Anthias are salinity sensitive at intro and I do and recommend acclimation over Two hours. For the crabs, at least 45 mins via drip method or similar.

The lfs has a 24 policy. I take the dead fish and a cup of water. If the water checks out then they replace all losses.
I’m torn, do I drip acclimate or do the cup method?

 

[Flippers4pups]

Do you think that it was just ammonia burn? During the drive and when I was trying to get them into the dt they were super stressed and pale. They seemed fine after 30 minutes or so swimming around the tank

Unless the LFS is keeping their systems at hypo, around 1.018ish, salinity change of, say 3pts or even 30 to 35 shouldn't be a problem in that time. It's the ammonia that causes the greatest damage. Ammonia burn over that time could cause irreversible damage and or death, unless there is a large removal of water from the acclimation bucket during that time.

Ammonia buildup in a sealed bag isn't a problem until the bag is opened. That's when the clock starts ticking. The CO2 is dissipated and oxygen reaches the water, that's when the ammonia starts to become toxic.

 

[vetteguy53081]

The lfs has a 24 policy. I take the dead fish and a cup of water. If the water checks out then they replace all losses.
I’m torn, do I drip acclimate or do the cup method?

I prefer drip but yes, it is time consuming. Cup is good also but do it gradually.
I transfer specimens and bag water to a bucket. Thereafter (lets use the cup method)....I add a cup of tank water to bucket every 10 minutes for about 1.5 hours, I then take a large cup and allow fish to swim into it and pour off almost all water and let fish slide out of cup into tank. Net is not the best choice as it is stressful to the specimen.

 

[Knamei]

Ok thank you for everyone’s help! I’m super bummed about the losses but hopefully as long as it all checks out with the lfs then I’ll make sure to acclimate them for an extended time and remove water as I go to prevent he ammonia toxicity