New and Frustrated To Others like me.

[Chefbill]

Also Google is awesome. Type in "dusty brown algae reef" and get diatoms as an answer. Type "green tentacle hard coral" look through the images and BAM there is your ID.
Yes, of course ask here if you're stumped, but the immediate gratification of figuring it out for yourself is a reward.
Learning how to learn I guess

 

[Salty1962]

In my opinion this will always be true. There are just too many variables in a reef tank. What works in a nano tank won't necessarily work in a 250 gallon tank. SPS tanks will react differently than mixed reef tanks. Some people run refugiums with macro algae, others run algae scrubbers. People run sock filters (cloth or mesh), use different salts, dose Kalk, 2 part, trace elements, vinegar or vodka. Some run carbon, GFO, and other filtration media. People feed flake, frozen, pellets, algae sheets, and other options which they feed 5 times a day to once a week. Everyone has different aquascapes, flow patterns, lighting types and schedules. People live in new houses, drafty houses, warm and cold climates, no sumps all the way to full blown fish rooms.
It only makes sense that what works very well for one system would be a complete disaster when used in another system.



That is an excellent question. I know I find the people who explain the science behind their posts to be the most helpful. Once that is understood it is much easier to figure out how it will impact your system. That is probably not true of the average reefer. I know my son just develops that blank stare when he starts reading posts on how H2O2 causes electron exchange within prot....zzzzzzz.

I think it is important for those of us with new systems to explain our systems as well as possible. It is important for those responding to understand our systems and do their best to make sure the advice actually applies in our situation. One huge hurdle is that us new people may not even understand what information even applies to the questions we ask.

What needs to happen for it to be better? That is a question we should all consider and see if we can work towards making it happen.

I totally agree. We can always make things better for everyone!

 

[Salty1962]

I never knew about tagging and putting one of these silly things anywhere @.
There so much stuff on here I will never know because I am also retired so those @ and tagging don't work on my computer and if I tried to use that on my phone it would probably just call the fire department.
I have been doing this a while and I can say that I don't give much advice anymore because virtually all of my methods are old school, or antique school and I am to old to argue with too many people at once. I normally get PMs if someone wants to ask me something that I may have an opinion about.
When the hobby started and there was only 3 of us and we were in different states and there was no internet, computers, cell phones or credit cards, this was much easier. Now as you found out there is too much information and much of it was formed as a rumor last Tuesday and now is perceived as fact. Before you take advice try to find out if the person at least has a tank and it was set up before a week ago and has kept the thing many times that you are trying to keep. The vast majority of people in this hobby started this year so be careful and I hope you have the very best luck because this is probably the best hobby with the friendliest people there are.
My other hobby is trying to guess the phone numbers of Supermodels

Sometimes "Old School" is still the golden rule.

 

[mcarroll]

That is why I always recommend a few really good books to read first.

Aye! I've always had a wonder, but since they closed the last bookstore near me I've been questioning whether people really do read or not. (I mean more than then length of a Tweeeeeeeet.)

I'm in the middle of a population of millions...no bookstores. Unless you count a very small used book shop with a small selection a half hour a way.

Thank goodness for libraries.

the immediate gratification of figuring it out for yourself is a reward.

The danger and the gratification...

• The internet is great at spitting out facts.
• The internet is pretty good at showing you good-or-at-least-popular-or-at-least-paid-for facts.
• The internet is not great at telling you what is important.
• Nobody ever cites Google Scholar.

Maybe most importantly...

• The internet cannot give you experience.

Unfortunately, you may need experience to understand any of this....but I bet reading books at least helps!

@Paul B's book is great, BTW! It's a very unique, excellent addition to my bookshelf, that's for sure.

When I'm done reading, it'll go right in the middle of the row!

For anyone intimidated by big books, it is not a giant tome like Conscientious Marine Aquarist... or a grandiose multi-volume set. (That's coming out next, right @Paul B? ) It's definitely very readable, and chock full of great ideas, insights and projects. Humor, even! (And guess what: Paul knows Google Scholar AND has more experience than anyone else I know. This is what boils down to a great book.)

(I do also recommend all of the grandiose multi-volume sets and large tomes as they tend toward completeness, but they can be expensive. I wouldn't trade my Corals of the World set for any books I'm aware of. )

(Edit: Please PM me if that image doesn't work for you.)

 

[Chefbill]

Yes mcaroll all valid points. But I was trying to show by my 2 examples I was talking basic questions like ID . notice I didn't use "dsb vs bb". Even then google would point you to one of several forums in the first few results.
I am a firm believer in "god helps he who helps himself"

 

[Paul B]

You should also add (if a fish died) what he looked like before and after he died. If you just say (like most posts on this) all my fish died and I don't know what to do. That could have been because a Yeti blew his nose in your tank or it got hit by a truck. Fish act slightly differently, just like people do just before they die. They rarely get massive heart attacks and drop dead. Did it stop eating? Swim erratically? Do the Macarana?
And just after they die they will also have distinguishing factors like it's gills were flaired out (ammonia) or they were gasping from the surface just before they died (gill parasites, low oxygen, c02 or Rap music.
Spots could be from a number of causes and may be a secondary concern from the main cause, head shaking back and forth could mean gill flukes, other parasites or you are not feeding it correctly and it is saying "no".
With experience it is fairly easy to determine the cause of death, but we can't see your tank from here.
One more thing, fish should almost never get sick and they won't if they are in a natural tank of some age on it and they are fed correctly which most fish are not. "Quality" flake food is not an appropriate food. Too long to go into here but there is much information on the subject around if you ask.
These orange spots don't mean anything.
PS. I also like Paul Bs book and I read it. A few times actually.

 

[mcarroll]

But I was trying to show by my 2 examples I was talking basic questions

I don't disagree, I was just saying there are limits to that....especially for beginners who are even more likely than me to think that Google or forums are the sum-total of the internet...maybe the sum-total of all knowledge...when in reality results might only be paid for vs being good or correct or anything else.

In other words, it's not so easy as a beginner to get the information you need because you are likely to keep searching for the information you want.

Books are different. When I have had the chance, I always start newbies off with a book vs sending them to a website or the internet.

Even if the book is dated, you at least start with a full(er) picture of at-least-coherent information. Any subsequent internet learning will benefit from the perspective.

 

[Brew12]

Even if the book is dated, you at least start with a full(er) picture of at-least-coherent information. Any subsequent internet learning will benefit from the perspective.

+1 on this

A study was done on competency several years ago that was very interesting (at least to me). They took a wide range of students and asked them how they thought they did on tests they had just taken. What they found was very interesting. The people who did the best on their tests tended to underestimate their results. Those in the middle were very close to what they scored. Those who did the worst on the test tended to think they did much better than they actually scored.
What they found is that the people who did the best understood exactly what they knew, and also knew where they were guessing and were likely to guess right. The people in the middle understood enough to know when they were guessing and the averages worked out. Those who scored the worst actually understood the topic so poorly that they didn't even recognize how little they knew.

Quality books establish a minimum baseline knowledge to set some level of competency. This helps get people to the point where they understand enough to at least know what questions they need to ask.

 

[skybears]

Quality books establish a minimum baseline knowledge to set some level of competency. This helps get people to the point where they understand enough to at least know what questions they need to ask.

All I can say is "Amen " to this. I have no LFS in this state so i have a almost 2 hour drive to one so i have purchased many probably over 60 books on saltwater aquariums, plus i love to read and be able to reference back to something.

 

[bigroost]

Vanessa I skipped so much in between, I know that's not right following a thread, just wanted to add to your initial thought. I tend to let my feelings or emotion at the time I read something project onto what someone is telling me. It only adds to my frustration, I have to reread something occasionally with a sunny demeanor so that it doesn't give me that feeling like I got brushed off.

 

[DeniseAndy]

Vanessa I skipped so much in between, I know that's not right following a thread, just wanted to add to your initial thought. I tend to let my feelings or emotion at the time I read something project onto what someone is telling me. It only adds to my frustration, I have to reread something occasionally with a sunny demeanor so that it doesn't give me that feeling like I got brushed off.

Yes, hard to convey the little things in words on a screen. Sometimes we are in a hurry and are brief. I know I have issues when I am responding from my tablet or phone. Darn thing is impossible to type on, so I am more brief and probably sound like an idiot at times. But, I always think the sunny demeanor is best when reading responses. Shine on!

 

[Bob Escher]

Yes there are "options" but i am the first newbie to tell you that sometimes those just don't work ( from experience )

I'm a pretty new newbie myself 10 months ( and I may say retired/disabled as well) I understand what your saying
By the way you forgot to mention going got the local fish store and getting more opinions.
And I agree you but you will leRn or do what I do turn around and look up things even more and mess up the old noggin even more. Just kidding)
But take eCh comment with wisdom and a grain of salt at the same time. Combine all the remarks and see which has the best together

Each tank is different and what may work on one will not always work on the one next to it.

Welcome to the wonderful world of reefing

 

[skybears]

By the way you forgot to mention going got the local fish store and getting more opinions.

the funny part is my LFS is almost 2 hours away....lol

 

[Brew12]

the funny part is my LFS is almost 2 hours away....lol

I feel your pain. I have 1 LFS within 2 hrs of me and salt water is almost an afterthought for them. Making things worse is that the local reef club disbanded this year so I don't even have that as an option.

 

[skybears]

I feel your pain. I have 1 LFS within 2 hrs of me and salt water is almost an afterthought for them. Making things worse is that the local reef club disbanded this year so I don't even have that as an option.

yes i thrive on books and the interweb...lol

 

[Shaun Sweeney]

OK so i have been on here for almost 1 mo. There has been many moments where my brain has gone LOCO from reading all the different post on this and that ( wanting to learn the most I can)and always come up with (these ARE NOT true meanings of anything it's an example) the AMP's tp PTO's to the G3 better then the GFO4's. SO first thing is getting the Lingo, acronyms. it is sticky-ed in the new to SW agu. can't figure out how to paste the link. ( another challenge on my plate) I printed it out and it goes with me everywhere. then there is the is the amazing knowledge that everyone has a opinion, their way of doing it. I love hearing those but when it comes down to it, make your own mind. It could be using many tips from others to make it work for you. i have logged out many times going to bed with my brain dreaming of " what did they mean by that" my amazing Saltwater aquarium is going to look amazing. I get on in the morning ( retirement is AWESOME at times) and start asking question.....many questions. There are times where you will get a lonely threat link that you already looked at and that still do not know the answer that I originally needed help with. Be patient, I have asked a few questions that don't get reply's so i ask it again but phrase it in a different way (more for male understanding)and that tends to work, if not make a tread in all caps(not really) but tag people in it like (OH how do you tag, i just learned this. It's a goldmine) just add @ in front of the name like this @cameronh (sorry you where the last on my mind) and that gets some person's attention that you REALLY need help.
So end in end, don't go to bed frustrated, it will all come together. maybe we need a sticky thread " the new helping new" we can get together and work our newbie minds so the oldies don't feel like we are pestering them. ( having to edit this )( EDIT AGAIN) everyone is here to help and i feel that everyone tries. I was just stating a few things that might help......others like me. I did not mean to step on someones sand, i was just letting people know that to hang in there and don't get frustrated.
thank you everyone for everything you do!!!

Well said. I'm another oldie struggling to make sense of all the acronyms and make the best use of this outstanding resource. I'm not even sure I know how to post a new thread.

 

[helen ann]

Well said. I'm another oldie struggling to make sense of all the acronyms and make the best use of this outstanding resource. I'm not even sure I know how to post a new thread.

Here you go ... at the top of each topic/category is a lil' button to create a new thread

 

[mcarroll]

There's a way to make pop-ups for the common acronyms, but some time back I stopped seeing that option on the website. Having that would help a lot. (The only one I see is for Amazon (which now seems not to work either). Like they need explaining or promoting. Maybe @revhtree can offer some insight whether that pop-up feature could help more than it does?)

 

[Shaun Sweeney]

Here you go ... at the top of each topic/category is a lil' button to create a new thread

Arggg ... maybe it's part of the hazing ritual for newbies but that button does NOT show anywhere on my screen shots. My top right has the little curved arrow but is not wide enough to show that nice big button. I'm using a MAC and the window just about takes up the entire screen but no button.

 

[Brew12]

Arggg ... maybe it's part of the hazing ritual for newbies but that button does NOT show anywhere on my screen shots. My top right has the little curved arrow but is not wide enough to show that nice big button. I'm using a MAC and the window just about takes up the entire screen but no button.

It only shows up if you are on a forum section that you are allowed to create a new thread on. Mine disappears on the main forum page and any time I am inside a thread.