New aquarium livestock plan: are these compatible?

[BamaCoastPyrat]

Hello R2R! After 20+ years away from the hobby, I am setting up a 40 gallon tank "for my kids." The tank has so far been running for 7 weeks. I started the tank with fishless cycle (I think it was API quickstart) and 22 pounds of live rock and about 1-1/2" of dry sand. When I started to see a decent amount of algae growth, I added a clean up crew of 5 astraea snails and 5 red legged hermit crabs. My LFS guy has said that my water parameters look good and that I am more than ready to add fish.

Tomorrow I am going to make a bunch of artificial live rock from concrete. I have found a number of youtube videos and articles about how to do this. None of the sources completely agree on how to do so, so I need to do more research on this, but I plan to eventually have a ton of rock and hiding places in the aquarium.

I do not plan on adding corals to this tank. However, I would like to encourage as much coralline growth as possible. I have a hang-on-the-back filter but eventually will add a protein skimmer and may also transition to a sump refugium.

So now that you have the details, here is my question: will the following fish work in my tank?

Oscellaris clownfish
Orchid dottyback
Dragonet of some sort, preferably a mandarin

I would prefer to have all captive bred livestock.

On Wednesday I am going to get the Oscellaris clownfish. I planned on getting two, but could I put 4 in this tank?

Further down the line when I have all of the rock in place and it has turned into live rock, my kids want an Orchid Dottyback. I have read a lot of people suggesting a pair added at the same time. Could I have a pair in a 40 gallon tank?

And is a dragonet compatible with the dottybacks?

So maxed out, if they will play nicely, I would have 4 Oscellaris Clowns, 2 Orchid Dottybacks, and a dragonet. Is that too much?

 

[HuduVudu]

Dottybacks are in general not nice fish.

 

[Sharkbait19]

Not sure on how hard it is to pair dottys, I’d just get one though as they can be mean. In a 40 one shouldn’t be a problem though.
Dragonets are quite hard to feed but if the tank is well established you could likely be able to keep one in a 40. Spring for a captive one - they are easier to get on prepared foods.
I’d just do a pair of clowns.

 

[BamaCoastPyrat]

Dottybacks are in general not nice fish.

That's what I have read. I intended on staying with docile fish in this tank but my 7 year olds saw an orchid dottyback at their doctor's office and are now obsessed with it. So I am trying to figure out how to make it fit the tank.

 

[BamaCoastPyrat]

Not sure on how hard it is to pair dottys, I’d just get one though as they can be mean. In a 40 one shouldn’t be a problem though.
Dragonets are quite hard to feed but if the tank is well established you could likely be able to keep one in a 40. Spring for a captive one - they are easier to get on prepared foods.
I’d just do a pair of clowns.

I do not know how hard dottybacks are to pair either, I have just seen people recommend pairs. I was planning on a captive bred dragonet, but they still might be too difficult of a fish for us. The dragonet would be at least a year down the line. And, one vote for just a pair of clowns.

Thank you for your reply!

 

[Sharkbait19]

That's what I have read. I intended on staying with docile fish in this tank but my 7 year olds saw an orchid dottyback at their doctor's office and are now obsessed with it. So I am trying to figure out how to make it fit the tank.

Look into basslets, especially royal gramma. They have a similar look/behavior and are far less aggressive.

I also recommend quarantining or buying quarantined fish - reduces likelihood of infection getting in the tank - and that’s not fun.

 

[bnord]

if its dotty backs you like, try a gramma - more calm and you can add other fish later more securely

I also spoke with a guy who collects them, and he says you can remove a young one from a pier on a Monday and on Wednesday there is another in its place - that seems right to me...

 

[BamaCoastPyrat]

Look into basslets, especially royal gramma. They have a similar look/behavior and are far less aggressive.

I also recommend quarantining or buying quarantined fish - reduces likelihood of infection getting in the tank - and that’s not fun.

Oh yeah, basslets are a good idea. I will definitely look into them when I get ready to add the required purple fish.

What is the current recommended process for quarantining fish?

 

[BamaCoastPyrat]

if its dotty backs you like, try a gramma - more calm and you can add other fish later more securely

I also spoke with a guy who collects them, and he says you can remove a long one from a pier on a Monday and on Wednesday there is another in its place - that seems right to me...

That is a good idea. @Sharkbait19 just suggested basslets. I think I am going to take ya'll's advice when I get to the point of adding the purple fish. Thank you!

 

[BamaCoastPyrat]

Look into basslets, especially royal gramma. They have a similar look/behavior and are far less aggressive.

I also recommend quarantining or buying quarantined fish - reduces likelihood of infection getting in the tank - and that’s not fun.

I just found a thread on quarantining that I will read through. Thank you.

 

[Sharkbait19]

Oh yeah, basslets are a good idea. I will definitely look into them when I get ready to add the required purple fish.

What is the current recommended process for quarantining fish?

Best to hold fish in a separate qt tank for at least 30 days to screen for disease, and wouldn’t hurt to prophylactically treat copper for ich/velvet and prazi for worms.

Current Quarantine Protocol

2024 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed, proactive quarantine process can effectively eliminate these...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[BamaCoastPyrat]

Best to hold fish in a separate qt tank for at least 30 days to screen for disease, and wouldn’t hurt to prophylactically treat copper for ich/velvet and prazi for worms.

Current Quarantine Protocol

2024 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed, proactive quarantine process can effectively eliminate these...

www.reef2reef.com

Thank you. Looks like I need to set up a quarantine tank.....

Do you have to quarantine invertebrates like snails and hermit crabs?

 

[Fishfreak2009]

Honestly, orchid dottybacks are much more relaxed then the other dottybacks, and should do fine with those fish, especially if starting with captive bred juveniles.

If this was my tank, and I was stocking with all captive bred fish:
2 ocellaris clowns (more will fight in this size tank)
1 orchid dottyback (they pair really easily and readily available as captive bred juveniles if you decide to keep a pair)
1 Mandarin (wait 8-12 months to add just to build a copepod population)
1 Fang Blenny (I like the striped Meicanthus grammistes and the blacklined Meicanthus nigrolineatus)
1 Smithi or Sapphire Damsel (available captive bred online, Pomacentrus smithi and Pomacentrus pavo respectively)
2 Cardinalfish, either pajama (Sphaeramia nematoptera) or banggai (Pterapogon kauderni)
1 yellow watchman goby (Cryptocentrus cinctus) - and get him a pistol shrimp, either tiger or candy cane!
1 Red Headed Goby (Elacatinus puncticulatus)
1 Neon or Sharknose goby (Elecatinus oceanops or Elecatinus evalynae respectively)

I tend to stock my tanks heavily though, so do with that what you will.

 

[Sharkbait19]

Thank you. Looks like I need to set up a quarantine tank.....

Do you have to quarantine invertebrates like snails and hermit crabs?

It isn’t bad practice to quarantine inverts (done by keeping them isolated from the dt for 76 days without meds), but many, myself included, do not with no (or minimal) problems. In an ideal setup I would qt though but with limited tank space there’s only so much you can do.
I do recommend dipping corals though.

 

[BamaCoastPyrat]

It isn’t bad practice to quarantine inverts (done by keeping them isolated from the dt for 76 days without meds), but many, myself included, do not with no (or minimal) problems. In an ideal setup I would qt though but with limited tank space there’s only so much you can do.
I do recommend dipping corals though.

Ok, thanks for all of the advice. I appreciate you!

 

[BamaCoastPyrat]

Honestly, orchid dottybacks are much more relaxed then the other dottybacks, and should do fine with those fish, especially if starting with captive bred juveniles.

If this was my tank, and I was stocking with all captive bred fish:
2 ocellaris clowns (more will fight in this size tank)
1 orchid dottyback (they pair really easily and readily available as captive bred juveniles if you decide to keep a pair)
1 Mandarin (wait 8-12 months to add just to build a copepod population)
1 Fang Blenny (I like the striped Meicanthus grammistes and the blacklined Meicanthus nigrolineatus)
1 Smithi or Sapphire Damsel (available captive bred online, Pomacentrus smithi and Pomacentrus pavo respectively)
2 Cardinalfish, either pajama (Sphaeramia nematoptera) or banggai (Pterapogon kauderni)
1 yellow watchman goby (Cryptocentrus cinctus) - and get him a pistol shrimp, either tiger or candy cane!
1 Red Headed Goby (Elacatinus puncticulatus)
1 Neon or Sharknose goby (Elecatinus oceanops or Elecatinus evalynae respectively)

I tend to stock my tanks heavily though, so do with that what you will.

Ok, that's a lot of fish! So I am going with just the two ocellaris clowns that I'm picking up tomorrow. I was hoping that the captive bred fish would be a little tamer. After I get my rock-scape where I want it I will revisit the idea of a pair of orchid dottybacks. Thanks for the input!

 

[Fishfreak2009]

Ok, that's a lot of fish! So I am going with just the two ocellaris clowns that I'm picking up tomorrow. I was hoping that the captive bred fish would be a little tamer. After I get my rock-scape where I want it I will revisit the idea of a pair of orchid dottybacks. Thanks for the input!

No problem! Again, I stock my tanks heavier than a lot of people, but with good filtration to keep up with heavy feeding, it always works pretty well for me.

 

[Sharkbait19]

Ok, that's a lot of fish! So I am going with just the two ocellaris clowns that I'm picking up tomorrow. I was hoping that the captive bred fish would be a little tamer. After I get my rock-scape where I want it I will revisit the idea of a pair of orchid dottybacks. Thanks for the input!

Depends on species/breed. A lot of times captive breeding curbs aggression a bit but not by too much. In my readings and experience the captive breeds of clownfish wind up being more aggressive.
As for amount of fish, I’m currently planning 7 fish in my 40 breeder I’m setting up:
2 occy clowns
1 aurora goby
1 Coral Beauty angel
1 long nose hawk fish
1 blenny (most likely tailspot)
1 undecided fish

 

[Raplapla Ananas]

Hello R2R! After 20+ years away from the hobby, I am setting up a 40 gallon tank "for my kids." The tank has so far been running for 7 weeks. I started the tank with fishless cycle (I think it was API quickstart) and 22 pounds of live rock and about 1-1/2" of dry sand. When I started to see a decent amount of algae growth, I added a clean up crew of 5 astraea snails and 5 red legged hermit crabs. My LFS guy has said that my water parameters look good and that I am more than ready to add fish.

Tomorrow I am going to make a bunch of artificial live rock from concrete. I have found a number of youtube videos and articles about how to do this. None of the sources completely agree on how to do so, so I need to do more research on this, but I plan to eventually have a ton of rock and hiding places in the aquarium.

I do not plan on adding corals to this tank. However, I would like to encourage as much coralline growth as possible. I have a hang-on-the-back filter but eventually will add a protein skimmer and may also transition to a sump refugium.

So now that you have the details, here is my question: will the following fish work in my tank?

Oscellaris clownfish
Orchid dottyback
Dragonet of some sort, preferably a mandarin

I would prefer to have all captive bred livestock.

On Wednesday I am going to get the Oscellaris clownfish. I planned on getting two, but could I put 4 in this tank?

Further down the line when I have all of the rock in place and it has turned into live rock, my kids want an Orchid Dottyback. I have read a lot of people suggesting a pair added at the same time. Could I have a pair in a 40 gallon tank?

And is a dragonet compatible with the dottybacks?

So maxed out, if they will play nicely, I would have 4 Oscellaris Clowns, 2 Orchid Dottybacks, and a dragonet. Is that too much?

The dottyback can be aggressive and unpredictable. I had a neon dottyback kill my watchmam goby and my mandarin goby and bully a clownfish until he was tattered. I'm really not a fan of them. Just my experience.

 

[Fishfreak2009]

The dottyback can be aggressive and unpredictable. I had a neon dottyback kill my watchmam goby and my mandarin goby and bully a clownfish until he was tattered. I'm really not a fan of them. Just my experience.

Neon and orchid dottybacks are 2 completely different levels of aggression. Neons are one of the more aggressive. Orchids are the most peaceful.

Fwiw, my old orchid dottybacks were from ORA, and the breeding pair was less aggressive than my breeding pair of black cap basslets.