New Blue Face Angel Died. Very Upset.

[427HISS]

We have lost our new Blue Face after 10 days in our 29g Q/T tank, and have no idea why ?

She has eaten several,..... types of food, and was doing very well, even eating out of my hand.

I changed water every 3 days and the water parameters were, zero ammonia and nitrates and 10 nitrate, so that wasn't the issue.

On day one, I added ParaGuard and again three more days using only one cap full. I did not add it every day per the instructions, as she had no sign of illness or parasites.

The only thing we can think of, is she LOVED,.....romaine lettuce and would give her part of a leaf once a day. I did rinse it very well, but not washing with soap. Our other fish ate the same lettuce with no ill effects.

Could she have eaten too much causing a problem ?

We see no clouding of her eyes or ick spotting. Fins also look good.

I got home late last night after racing and she looked fine, but she dies this morning.

We named her "Elektra" and my wife is crying, and I have tears as well. She was beautiful.

Any ideas on what caused her death ?
Kevin & Patty.

 

[Humblefish]

First off, I am sorry for your loss. I am a lover of large angels myself. I have kept several for 10-15 years, and they become just like a member of the family.

In the absence of physical evidence of a disease, did you notice any of these key behavioral symptoms?

• Reduced or complete loss of appetite
• Heavy breathing, rubbing, flashing, head twitching, erratic swimming behavior
• Swimming into the flow of a powerhead
• Acting reclusive / purposely staying out of the light

Also, if you still have the body I would like you to drop it in FW (tap is fine) for 10 minutes to check for flukes. Use a dark (preferably black) bucket so you can see if tiny white worms fall out of the fish (especially out of the gills) at around the 3-4 minute mark. The worms will settle to the bottom, so you can use a flashlight to look for them there as well.

 

[Humblefish]

A postmortem photo of the fish may also be useful.

 

[4FordFamily]

I second humble's question, this is what happened to my large angels and it turns out it was velvet, despite never seeing any spots on the angels. Killed 4 or 5 before I figured it out. Solved what I thought was the problem each time. Very sad.

 

[427HISS]

I second humble's question, this is what happened to my large angels and it turns out it was velvet, despite never seeing any spots on the angels. Killed 4 or 5 before I figured it out. Solved what I thought was the problem each time. Very sad.

I had a LFS owner stop by and he said it was velvet. I told him that we did not see anything, and he told us that Velvet is real tricky to see unless it's out of the tank.
I hate to post a pic, as I have to upload it to Photo Bucket. but I'll try later.
It's an overhead shot of her in the tank, and not a clear photo.

Ok, here she is, my wife just smacked me on the head for posting the pic.
(she had passed away)

 

[melypr1985]

Agree with the others. Velvet is a strong possibility. It can be sneaky to spot sometimes and kill without leaving much of a trace. The answers to these questions may firm up the diagnosis. Think real hard about it and watch your other fish for these symptoms since any of them who shared a tank with the angel most likely have it too (if it's velvet that is).

In the absence of physical evidence of a disease, did you notice any of these key behavioral symptoms?

• Reduced or complete loss of appetite
• Heavy breathing, rubbing, flashing, head twitching, erratic swimming behavior
• Swimming into the flow of a powerhead
• Acting reclusive / purposely staying out of the light

I'm very sorry for your loss

 

[Humblefish]

Velvet is very possible, but angels are also highly susceptible to flukes as well IMHO.

 

[427HISS]

I bleach the Q/T after every fish leaves it for the display, so no other fish share the tank.
If this is velvet, I've never encountered it. I'll have to check if the ParaGuard kills velvet ?

A LFS sold me the ParaGuard and said that he hasn't used copper for treatment for his store or home tanks for two years,
and this Seachem product does very well without the dangers of copper.

Guess I should have given her a fresh water bath and dosed the ParaGuard everyday like recommended !

What's your thoughts on it and what do you do for velvet ?

 

[melypr1985]

I personally don't have any faith in paraguard. I haven't had the chance to do any tests with it myself but they use all natural ingredients to "coat" the fish in oils. This supposedly creates a shield to prevent the parasites like ick from attaching to the fish. Though how effective this is, remains to be seen. All it takes is one to attach to the fish to keep the cycle going and the parasites alive. Personally I would use CP or copper to treat for velvet.

You dont have to treat with copper right off the bat, but it's so prevalent in the wholesaler's systems right now that it might not be a bad idea.

 

[427HISS]

I've also heard that most or even all wholesalers have them all in their tanks as well. Sucks.....

 

[427HISS]

What's the best way to treat velvet, or to prevent it when we bring home a new fish ?

 

[melypr1985]

What's the best way to treat velvet, or to prevent it when we bring home a new fish ?

CP or Copper prophylactically in a QT before going into the display.
Copper
Chloroquine phosphate

Also good info to read on Humble's exact treatment protocal for velvet... for future use
Velvet (Amyloodinium ocellatum)

 

[427HISS]

So sad that we and the fish, have to go through this today. Back in the 90's, we hardly had any fish that got sick.

It's a lot of material to read, but I'll do just that.
Thank you !

 

[Humblefish]

So sad that we and the fish, have to go through this today. Back in the 90's, we hardly had any fish that got sick.

Because back in the 90s, most LFS & wholesalers maintained continuous copper in their fish only systems. This didn't always eradicate ich, but even short exposure time to copper usually wipes out velvet due to its accelerated life cycle. Velvet trophonts only remain on a fish for 12 hours - 4 days, so if a fish were maintained in a copper environment (where therapeutic levels were continuously maintained) for at least 4 days then in theory the fish should be velvet free. Of course, this theory cuts it really close and allows no margin for error which is why we advocate a longer treatment period.

Nowadays the focus is more on corals than fish, and both are commonly housed together. This makes it impossible to use copper unless they were separated out.

 

[427HISS]

We had our new Clown Trigger in the QT for a month and used the ParaGuard for a week, so we stopped the treatment.
Who knows if the medication worked or maybe he was clean from the start, but he's very happy & healthy.

I'm tired of seeing sick fish at the stores and most local stores do not,...treat their fish systems at all.
Only one, will hold fish for me for a week, so I may only buy from them.

I guess copper is a must when we buy new fish. I'm setting up a tank just for corals as well, and I will use one of the coral dip products.
Any advise on which dip company to use ?

 

[maroun.c]

Sorry for your loss. Unexplainable deaths do happen after shipping. Damage to internal organs can happen and go but noticed. But then the fish shows disease signs usually before dying. Could be just the picture but I see damage more around the gills area which leads me to think flukes.
Anyway not all fish we get makes it even with our best efforts.

 

[427HISS]

I agree, some, like us, just die with no reason.
Have any of you found a copper test kit that not only read easier, but most important, most accurate ?

 

[Humblefish]

I guess copper is a must when we buy new fish. I'm setting up a tank just for corals as well, and I will use one of the coral dip products.
Any advise on which dip company to use ?

I use CoralRx, but it is only effective against coral pests. Fish parasite tomonts, which encyst to corals/inverts, need to be starved out by being kept in a fishless environment for 76 days.

Have any of you found a copper test kit that not only read easier, but most important, most accurate ?

I prefer using Coppersafe in combination with an API copper test kit.

 

[Humblefish]

There are two "professional grade" test kits listed here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/copper-test-kits.257924/

 

[armspar]

Cupramine is a milder form of copper, it is very relatively safe and kills protozoans (ick, velvet) very fast. To me, a copper based medicine is the only effective kind. Para guard has rarely worked for me, through literally hundreds of trials, most result as ineffective. And about the poor little beauty, Id blame shipping stress over anything. Ive had fish that eat every food i give them even while living in cupramine. The fish dropped dead within a week, and looked very healthy even after it died.