new blue throat with disease
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melypr1985
totally addicted
He's not a gonner. You can treat him in a QT and have a good chance at saving his life. It looks like a pretty bad case of ich, though some of those spots are pretty small for ich. Either way QT and treat with CP or copper for 30 days. Here is how to treat with those meds.
Chloroquine phosphate: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans), Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium), Brooklynella hostilis & Uronema marinum.
How To Treat - Chloroquine phosphate (CP) is a “new drug” that actually was widely used to control external protozoa in saltwater aquariums back in the 70s & 80s. It was even used in some aquarium medications sold at LFS. At some point the FDA decided to make it a controlled substance and that was the end of that. Fast forward to today and thanks to the power of the Internet, CP has come roaring back! The biggest obstacle to overcome is obtaining pharmaceutical grade 99% pure CP. I cannot stress the importance of this enough. Do not buy it from some guy on eBay or even an online vendor. The only way to be sure you are getting 99% pure CP is to get your vet to write you a prescription that can then be filled at a local pharmacy.
CP is a “one and done” medication, meaning you dose once and that’s it. There are no test kits for CP, so it’s important that you dose accurately using a digital scale. Also, don’t forget to dose any replacement water (from water changes, but not top off) with CP. The dosage rates are as follows:
Pros - Gentle on most fish (DO NOT USE with wrasses), a “one and done” medication that treats most external protozoa. CP is the closest thing there is to a “wonder drug” in our hobby.
Cons/Side Effects - Expensive, hard to get (requires a prescription), light sensitive; some evidence of appetite suppression with certain species (especially wrasses.) Attempts to feed CP laced food are usually not successful due to its bad metallic taste.
Copper: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans), Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly Uronema marinum
How To Treat - First, it is important to know what kind of copper you are using. Cupramine is fully charged (ionic) copper, and has a therapeutic range of 0.35-0.5 mg/L or ppm. You would use a Seachem or Salifert copper test kit for Cupramine, as those are capable of reading copper in the low range. Coppersafe, on the other hand, is chelated copper. It has a much higher therapeutic range of 1.5-2.0 mg/L or ppm. As such, you need a “total copper test kit” such as API’s to measure Coppersafe.
Standard copper treatment lasts 30 consecutive days. The reason it takes so long is copper only targets the “free swimming stage” (the same holds true for all chemical treatments & hypo). While 7-14 days is the “norm” to reach this stage, certain strains of ich have prolonged life cycles. Indeed, even 30 days may not be long enough in some rare cases. This is why it is so important to observe after treatment ends, to ensure symptoms do not return.
Therapeutic copper levels must be maintained at all times during the 30 days, so testing often is important. If the level drops even slightly out of range, then the 30 day clock starts all over again. One reason your copper level may drop unexpectedly is if you are treating in a tank with rock and substrate; those should not be used in the presence of copper due to absorption. Conversely, if you exceed the therapeutic range you risk killing the fish.
Copper is a poison, pure and simple. It only works because most fish are able to withstand being in it longer than the parasites. Knowing this, it is wise to raise your copper level very slowly (over 3-5 days) instead of the usual 24-48 hours recommended on the labels. Doing so increases your odds of successfully treating a “copper sensitive” fish. Remove copper after 30 days by running activated carbon.
Pros - Readily available
Cons/Side Effects - Appetite suppression is a common side effect. If a fish stops eating, don’t add more copper until he resumes. If the fish is still not eating after 2-3 days, start doing water changes (lowering the copper concentration) until he eats. If this happens a second time after you resume raising the copper, you’ll know you’ve encountered a “copper sensitive” fish and an alternative treatment should be used instead. Some species of fish, such as angels, puffers, lions and mandarins are notoriously difficult to treat with copper.
Of course I highly recommend waiting on a second or third opinion before treating. I'm coming down with a cold and it seems to effect my thinking skills lol. (i typed "skills" 4 times before I spelled it right)
Chloroquine phosphate: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans), Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium), Brooklynella hostilis & Uronema marinum.
How To Treat - Chloroquine phosphate (CP) is a “new drug” that actually was widely used to control external protozoa in saltwater aquariums back in the 70s & 80s. It was even used in some aquarium medications sold at LFS. At some point the FDA decided to make it a controlled substance and that was the end of that. Fast forward to today and thanks to the power of the Internet, CP has come roaring back! The biggest obstacle to overcome is obtaining pharmaceutical grade 99% pure CP. I cannot stress the importance of this enough. Do not buy it from some guy on eBay or even an online vendor. The only way to be sure you are getting 99% pure CP is to get your vet to write you a prescription that can then be filled at a local pharmacy.
CP is a “one and done” medication, meaning you dose once and that’s it. There are no test kits for CP, so it’s important that you dose accurately using a digital scale. Also, don’t forget to dose any replacement water (from water changes, but not top off) with CP. The dosage rates are as follows:
- Prophylactic treatment is 40 mg per gallon.
- Active infections (visible symptoms present) is 60mg/gal.
- For Uronema marinum and really bad infestations, you can dose up to 80mg/gal.
Pros - Gentle on most fish (DO NOT USE with wrasses), a “one and done” medication that treats most external protozoa. CP is the closest thing there is to a “wonder drug” in our hobby.
Cons/Side Effects - Expensive, hard to get (requires a prescription), light sensitive; some evidence of appetite suppression with certain species (especially wrasses.) Attempts to feed CP laced food are usually not successful due to its bad metallic taste.
Copper: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans), Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly Uronema marinum
How To Treat - First, it is important to know what kind of copper you are using. Cupramine is fully charged (ionic) copper, and has a therapeutic range of 0.35-0.5 mg/L or ppm. You would use a Seachem or Salifert copper test kit for Cupramine, as those are capable of reading copper in the low range. Coppersafe, on the other hand, is chelated copper. It has a much higher therapeutic range of 1.5-2.0 mg/L or ppm. As such, you need a “total copper test kit” such as API’s to measure Coppersafe.
Standard copper treatment lasts 30 consecutive days. The reason it takes so long is copper only targets the “free swimming stage” (the same holds true for all chemical treatments & hypo). While 7-14 days is the “norm” to reach this stage, certain strains of ich have prolonged life cycles. Indeed, even 30 days may not be long enough in some rare cases. This is why it is so important to observe after treatment ends, to ensure symptoms do not return.
Therapeutic copper levels must be maintained at all times during the 30 days, so testing often is important. If the level drops even slightly out of range, then the 30 day clock starts all over again. One reason your copper level may drop unexpectedly is if you are treating in a tank with rock and substrate; those should not be used in the presence of copper due to absorption. Conversely, if you exceed the therapeutic range you risk killing the fish.
Copper is a poison, pure and simple. It only works because most fish are able to withstand being in it longer than the parasites. Knowing this, it is wise to raise your copper level very slowly (over 3-5 days) instead of the usual 24-48 hours recommended on the labels. Doing so increases your odds of successfully treating a “copper sensitive” fish. Remove copper after 30 days by running activated carbon.
Pros - Readily available
Cons/Side Effects - Appetite suppression is a common side effect. If a fish stops eating, don’t add more copper until he resumes. If the fish is still not eating after 2-3 days, start doing water changes (lowering the copper concentration) until he eats. If this happens a second time after you resume raising the copper, you’ll know you’ve encountered a “copper sensitive” fish and an alternative treatment should be used instead. Some species of fish, such as angels, puffers, lions and mandarins are notoriously difficult to treat with copper.
Of course I highly recommend waiting on a second or third opinion before treating. I'm coming down with a cold and it seems to effect my thinking skills lol. (i typed "skills" 4 times before I spelled it right)
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I think that's velvet: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/defeating-marine-velvet-disease.217570/
Two questions:
Velvet (Amyloodinium):
Symptoms - Because velvet can be such a fast killer, key behavioral symptoms will often prelude visible ones. A fish with velvet may breathe heavy, seek relief by swimming into the flow of a powerhead and act reclusive (velvet makes them sensitive to light).
If visible symptoms do manifest; velvet appears the same as ich, except the fish will usually be covered in “dust.” This dust may look gold colored if viewed at the right angle and under the right spectrum of light. Velvet is often misdiagnosed as ich and is the main “tank killer” in our hobby. It can wipe out all your fish in less than 72 hours and cannot usually be “managed” as ich sometimes is.
Treatment options - Chloroquine phosphate is the treatment of choice for velvet, but copper also works if symptoms are caught early on. Tank transfer and hypodoes notwork with velvet. A freshwater dip or formalin bath is recommended before treatment begins, due to the severity of this disease; however these would only provide temporary relief and will not eradicate velvet.
Two questions:
- Are the white dots more like larger sized grains of salt or more like tiny sugar sprinkles?
- Can you count the number of white dots on the fish or are they too numerous to count?
Velvet (Amyloodinium):
Symptoms - Because velvet can be such a fast killer, key behavioral symptoms will often prelude visible ones. A fish with velvet may breathe heavy, seek relief by swimming into the flow of a powerhead and act reclusive (velvet makes them sensitive to light).
If visible symptoms do manifest; velvet appears the same as ich, except the fish will usually be covered in “dust.” This dust may look gold colored if viewed at the right angle and under the right spectrum of light. Velvet is often misdiagnosed as ich and is the main “tank killer” in our hobby. It can wipe out all your fish in less than 72 hours and cannot usually be “managed” as ich sometimes is.
Treatment options - Chloroquine phosphate is the treatment of choice for velvet, but copper also works if symptoms are caught early on. Tank transfer and hypodoes notwork with velvet. A freshwater dip or formalin bath is recommended before treatment begins, due to the severity of this disease; however these would only provide temporary relief and will not eradicate velvet.
Flatlandsrefeer
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This was a helpful differentiation. Thanks for posting it.A fish with velvet
A fish with just ich
melypr1985
totally addicted
Yup. I knew my brain wasn't working right today. 
Good call Doc. Though, the meds I posted will work for velvet as well. 
This is better though
http://reef2reef.com/threads/defeating-marine-velvet-disease.217570/
Good call Doc. Though, the meds I posted will work for velvet as well. This is better though
http://reef2reef.com/threads/defeating-marine-velvet-disease.217570/
Any fish he shares water with need copper or CP treatment ASAP. I cannot stress how fast this disease can spread.
Lawrence Falls
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Keep water parameters perfect -if he's a youth his immune system is not fully developed yet. Mine looked worse than that ( it lasted for months!) and he and a young hippo tang survived!
He's very picky now though! only eats LRS!
He's very picky now though! only eats LRS!
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Welcome to R2R!!
Check the order of displayed threads on your homepage I think you’re showing the oldest first. This is 4 years old.
