New Calcium Reactor setup raising Alk and lowering pH

[Tobe71]

I just set up my first calcium reactor. It has been running for about 30 hours. My beginning alkalinity was 9.0. It is now 10.0.
I am using a Vertex calcium reactor, a Milwaukee pH Controller And a Carbon Doser regulator/solenoid.
I followed the instructions layed out by the BRSTV Calcium Reactor video from the BRS 160 series.
The pH controller is set to 6.8, the Carbon Doser is set to 1 bubble every 2 seconds and the effluent rate was set at 180ml/minute.
After 24 hours my Alk had climbed to 9.9 and my pH had dropped from 8.3 to 8.05.
At that point I adjusted the effluent rate down to 45ml/minute assuming this would lower the amount of Alk being added to tge system. After about 6 hours with this slower effluent drip, my Alk continued to climb and my pH has continued to drop. All is now 10.0 and pH is 7.97.
I haven’t noticed any I’ll effects yet to my Mixed Reef but I am a bit worried.
Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.
If Randy Holmes is around I’d love his input. What I have found online thus far has been contradictory at best.
Thank you!
PS I previously had been dosing BRS two part Alk (Soda Ash) by hand. About 100-150ml every 24-30 hours. And Calcium as needed whenever I’d think to test for it. I do monthly 25% water changes and everything has been doing very well like this for about 3 years on this system.
My chief concern is slowing the Alk increase and the pH drop.
I’ve read to increase the effluent rate and I’ve also read to decrease it. Help!

 

[DLHDesign]

Beyond me on this one; let's check with the #reefsquad.

 

[Diesel]

180ml is a lot per minute btw.
You should start out with 80ml.
If you reduce the effluent the water stays longer in the reactor and for that the mix get stronger.
Not sure where your pressure is set on but I have it on 6psi (not bottle pressure)
The higher thr pressure the larger the bubble of Co2.
What kind of media you run in the reactor?

My advice is adjust the amount of Co2 and turn it off.
Then test after every 12 hours ALK only.
You might see your Ph dropping but don't worry about that.
I've learned that running a CaRx you be better off also dose kalk.
Reason is that it will take the Co2 out of your water and as results your ph will be more stable.

 

[boozeman27]

Use this calculator. It helped me understand CRx a lot better
http://reef.diesyst.com/reactor/reactor.html

When you slowed your effluent drip without adjusting your co2, you raised the alkalinity of the effluent because it became more concentrated. Does that make sense?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

The result seems normal to me. It may take some time to dial in the best water and CO2 flow rates (or water flow and pH).

While it is hard to optimize without knowing the alkalinity in the effluent, raising the pH in the reactor/reducing the CO2 bubble rate will serve to deliver less alk to the tank and the pH won't be driven as low.

 

[Diesel]

For what I'm using for years TLF reborn has a Ph melt point of 6.5 which is recommended.
I've noticed that the swings are minimal with that setting.
Randy is right that it will take a while you got the right setting.
Always remember with dosing to start slow and increase from there.

 

[Tobe71]

BAM! Exactly the same reading as I got 24hrs ago! Just adjusted the effluent rate a couple times until I hit the sweet spot. (110ml/minute)
pH drifts a little lower than I’d like (7.95-8.15) but I’m gonna leave it be for now and maybe increase the pH in the reactor and lower the effluent rate even more so I’m dosing a higher concentration of Alk, Ca and Mag (I have about 20% ZeoMag in the Reactor) but a lower volume of lower pH fluid which I assume would help with the pH issue, but for now I’m stoked!
How did I live this long without this??

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Sounds great.

Happy Reefing.

 

[Tobe71]

Sounds great.

Happy Reefing.

Thanks Randy.
Quick question. Is it safe to assume that a lower pH in your reactor and a lower effluent drip rate will result in lowering your system pH less? My assumption is that you will have a higher concentration of Alk and Ca (and Mag) in your effluent in this scenario and since the volume of lower pH effluent entering your system is less then the impact to your system pH would be less?
Also, if you have a secondary chamber to boost the effluents pH, the longer contact time should raise the effluents pH even more than in a scenario with a higher effluent flow rate.
Am I missing something here or is this part of the solution to maintaining Alk, Ca and Mag with less of an impact on pH?
Thank you!
(I just couldn’t seem to find it spelled out in these exact terms with anything I’d read online)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thanks Randy.
Quick question. Is it safe to assume that a lower pH in your reactor and a lower effluent drip rate will result in lowering your system pH less? My assumption is that you will have a higher concentration of Alk and Ca (and Mag) in your effluent in this scenario and since the volume of lower pH effluent entering

I think that is often, if not always, true. This is a fairly complicated issue and there is no simple equation that can calculate things in a situation where the system is not likely at equilibrium anywhere in the reactor system.

The effect of the reactor on tank pH depends primarily on the total amount of CO2 added to it. It does not necessarily depend on the pH in the reactor or in the effluent. If all you do is add a second chamber and raise the pH of the final effluent, that effect alone will not alter the tank pH lowering effect. (but what it may do is allow you to attain the same alkalinity in the effluent while using less CO2, and if you dial back the CO2, the tank pH lowering will decline).

My chemical sense tells me that, at least in some situations, reducing the flow rate through the reactor and reducing the pH in the reactor while maintaining the alkalinity delivered each day will probably require less total CO2 and so have a smaller effect on tank pH. I can give a chemical argument why that is likely the case, but cannot prove it with a simple equation.

 

[Tobe71]

I think that is often, if not always, true. This is a fairly complicated issue and there is no simple equation that can calculate things in a situation where the system is not likely at equilibrium anywhere in the reactor system.

The effect of the reactor on tank pH depends primarily on the total amount of CO2 added to it. It does not necessarily depend on the pH in the reactor or in the effluent. If all you do is add a second chamber and raise the pH of the final effluent, that effect alone will not alter the tank pH lowering effect. (but what it may do is allow you to attain the same alkalinity in the effluent while using less CO2, and if you dial back the CO2, the tank pH lowering will decline).

My chemical sense tells me that, at least in some situations, reducing the flow rate through the reactor and reducing the pH in the reactor while maintaining the alkalinity delivered each day will probably require less total CO2 and so have a smaller effect on tank pH. I can give a chemical argument why that is likely the case, but cannot prove it with a simple equation.

Just did my first maintenance on my Vertex RX-C 6D Calcium Reactor. The media chamber was only about half empty but my Kameor Peristaltic Dosing pump was having difficulty pulling water through the reactor for some reason (and the pump is brand new as I just got a replacement after the screen on my first one went dead after about 2 months), so I opted to tear it down and clean it out and refill the media.

I guess you could chalk this up to, “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” but while doing the maintenance which included calibrating the pH probe, I decided to calibrate the pH probe of my Pinpoint monitor that I use for the tank. To my surprise the probe in the reactor was still perfectly calibrated but the one for my system was WAY off. I had been under the impression my tank was running between 8.1 and 7.85 for months, but after the calibration the reality hit and my tank is running at 7.75-7.55?!?

Everything has been doing great and the only thing I’ve noticed different is the slowing of my chaeto growth in my fuge.

I’m gonna play around with the pH within the reactor and the flow rate to hopefully reduce the impact on my pH but a thought came to mind. And please forgive me as I’m sure this is WAY oversimplified.

If the pH is being driven down by the amount of CO2 being introduced to the system could you counteract this effect by dosing Oxygen, say as a supplement to the air normally drawn into your Skimmer or even just through a bubble wand or wooden air stone in your sump to increase absorption?
Would dosing straight O2 or even oxygen enriched air cause any issues in nit thinking of? And as long as we are talking about Oxygen, what about using Ozone? (My least favorite option)

Any and all input is greatly appreaciated!

PS I’m considering approaching it the traditional way with Kalwasser in my ATO but for some reason that just seems like such an anomalous thing to me. How can you know exactly what concentration you are adding as the ATO reservoir would be constantly changing as water is used and then water is added and kalwasser is depleted and then replenished. And that doesn’t even account for the variations in your evaporation rates that would impact your kalkwasser “dosing”.

Hey Randy, what are your thoughts?

 

[wilsonshawn8]

Just did my first maintenance on my Vertex RX-C 6D Calcium Reactor. The media chamber was only about half empty but my Kameor Peristaltic Dosing pump was having difficulty pulling water through the reactor for some reason (and the pump is brand new as I just got a replacement after the screen on my first one went dead after about 2 months), so I opted to tear it down and clean it out and refill the media.

I guess you could chalk this up to, “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” but while doing the maintenance which included calibrating the pH probe, I decided to calibrate the pH probe of my Pinpoint monitor that I use for the tank. To my surprise the probe in the reactor was still perfectly calibrated but the one for my system was WAY off. I had been under the impression my tank was running between 8.1 and 7.85 for months, but after the calibration the reality hit and my tank is running at 7.75-7.55?!?

Everything has been doing great and the only thing I’ve noticed different is the slowing of my chaeto growth in my fuge.

I’m gonna play around with the pH within the reactor and the flow rate to hopefully reduce the impact on my pH but a thought came to mind. And please forgive me as I’m sure this is WAY oversimplified.

If the pH is being driven down by the amount of CO2 being introduced to the system could you counteract this effect by dosing Oxygen, say as a supplement to the air normally drawn into your Skimmer or even just through a bubble wand or wooden air stone in your sump to increase absorption?
Would dosing straight O2 or even oxygen enriched air cause any issues in nit thinking of? And as long as we are talking about Oxygen, what about using Ozone? (My least favorite option)

Any and all input is greatly appreaciated!

PS I’m considering approaching it the traditional way with Kalwasser in my ATO but for some reason that just seems like such an anomalous thing to me. How can you know exactly what concentration you are adding as the ATO reservoir would be constantly changing as water is used and then water is added and kalwasser is depleted and then replenished. And that doesn’t even account for the variations in your evaporation rates that would impact your kalkwasser “dosing”.

Hey Randy, what are your thoughts?

I installed a large 2nd chamber after my calcium reactor which had a bubble maker in the bottom of it pulling O2 from outside through C02 buffer reactor. My hypothesis was that this should drastically increase my PH of my effluent prior to it hitting the tank but oxygensting the 2and chamber didn't move the PH of the effluent at all. However, the 2nd chamber alone did increase the PH of the effluent approximately .3. Mine went from 7.3 coming out of the reactor to 7.65.

I've implemented kalkwasser into my ATO and continued using the 2nd chamber after my calcium reactor, and buffering PH in my protein skimmer inlet from an outside source in an attempt to get my PH to a stable 8.3, however all these efforts have not been successful. My PH hovers around 8.05.

I'm thinking of making my kalkwasser solution more potent and leaning more in that for my all and ca supplementation, then reducing the use of my calcium reactor until I absolutely need it's additional alk, and ca suppliment. Do you think this will help me achieve 8.3 PH?

Any other ideas would be much appreciated. I'm striking out here.

 

[Tobe71]

I installed a large 2nd chamber after my calcium reactor which had a bubble maker in the bottom of it pulling O2 from outside through C02 buffer reactor. My hypothesis was that this should drastically increase my PH of my effluent prior to it hitting the tank but oxygensting the 2and chamber didn't move the PH of the effluent at all. However, the 2nd chamber alone did increase the PH of the effluent approximately .3. Mine went from 7.3 coming out of the reactor to 7.65.

I've implemented kalkwasser into my ATO and continued using the 2nd chamber after my calcium reactor, and buffering PH in my protein skimmer inlet from an outside source in an attempt to get my PH to a stable 8.3, however all these efforts have not been successful. My PH hovers around 8.05.

I'm thinking of making my kalkwasser solution more potent and leaning more in that for my all and ca supplementation, then reducing the use of my calcium reactor until I absolutely need it's additional alk, and ca suppliment. Do you think this will help me achieve 8.3 PH?

Any other ideas would be much appreciated. I'm striking out here.

Good questions. I’d refer you back to Randy Holmes’ replies.
I have had great success and my pH stays around 8-8.1 now. Chasing 8.3 just doesn’t seem worth it to me at this point.
Plus adding Kalk has some other potential downsides, so I’d recommend doing your research on that. I love my calcium reactor and can’t imagine running a reef without one.