New Fish on the Block

1wwoods7 · Sep 22, 2015

Hey Everyone,

So I am some what new to the salt water fish hobby. I started my first tank in Feb 2015. It is a 75 gallon aquarium. Originally it was supposed to be fish and inverts, but that changed as of a month ago.
So first story I started with some inverts and then I added two clownfish, a week later I got 2 firefly gobies and a Neon goby, from then on I was getting about 2 fish a week. I got a sailfin tang , 3 blue green chromis (one died the following day) that all got a long and I had a happy tank. Well after that things have gone down hill! I had the following fish in this order until they were killed/disappeared.
Six Line Wrasse, Royal Gamma, Six Line Wrasse, Royal Gamma, Flame Angel, Diamond Watchman Goby. All the way up to the flame angle myself and my LFS could not figure why but I did notice though that the fish always had cut marks. Then one morning I woke up to see my sailfin tang hitting its rear fins on my flame angle which died latter that night. It then attack my diamond goby that died the next day.
After that my LFS took the Salfin Tang back to tank sit it to see why it might be aggressive they also suggested that we wait 6 weeks because of all the stress the other fish have been through, so we did. After that I got a diamond goby again to help clean up my sand but I would just sit under the rocks until the lights went off and then it would try to jump out of the tank, so we traded it in for a dragon goby, Orange Spotted Rabbitfish and I also got another flame angle. They were doing good but then I started to notice white dots on the flame angle, so since I had inverts I used microbe lift herbtana. Well the first day I treated with that at around 5 PM then while I left my partner noticed that all the fish were almost dead and laying on there sides by 8 PM. I got home and did a quick water change and let the tank sit a day. I then treated for 3 days after that and everything seemed fine on a Saturday at 8 AM then we went to a brunch and got back around 12 PM to find my flame angle and my dragon goby dead and the tank almost a milky white.
So after that my rabbitfish had some noticable white spots. So instead of treating in my tank we took the rabbitfish to our LFS and they put it in their medication tank for a week. Well after that my clown fish looked like they had a white cloudy film on them so we also took the clown fish to the LFS and the next day they died. After that we decided to take out all of the inverts so that we could constantly treat with copper to help prevent little issues. So we let everything sit for another 2 weeks and we found this beautiful coral beauty that my partner saw so we got it. It was fine for 3 days and then we noticed more white spots. So to help stop that we got garlic guard, Ich-X and a cleaner Wrasse. The cleaner wrasse died not even 24 hrs later and the coral beauty died the following day. I now only have 5 fish which are; 2 firefly gobies, 2 blue green chromis and a rabbitfish. I have had so many problems with this tank that it has become so stressful.
My partner has suggested ordering fish online and my LFS has talked about doing a medicated tank that fish are quarantine for the first week and then introduce them to the main tank. At this point I am looking for any advice that could prevent further death because I cannot afford another $500 in dead fish and another $200 in medications and special food! Any ideas?

KJ · Sep 22, 2015

Welcome to R2R

ksfulk · Sep 22, 2015

For right now, I wouldnt do either. You need to take care of your display tank (DT) and medicate the remaining fish you have in a quarantine tank (QT). Things like ich, velvet, bacterial infections, etc are all outlined in the fish disease forum and there are lots of resources on reef2reef to read and help diagnose your problems. Sounds to me like you introduced ich and possibly something else into your DT and its likely that the remaining fish are carrying the parasite, and that new additions will likely be compromised enough (health wise) to succumb to the parasite you have living in your tank.

I recommend quarantine - read the guide thats linked HERE. Then treat your tank - read the guide thats linked HERE. Slow down, do your homework and you wont have to lose all those beautiful fish.

Maybe @Humblefish can also weigh in on some options as well.

4FordFamily · Sep 22, 2015

Welcome home you'll love it here.

Qt everything but understand what you're doing first as ammonia can be a killer. For instance don't mix prime or amquel with most medications it will poison your fish.

Water changes are your friend.

I buy 95% of my fish online. Better selection and fewer water systems they had to acclimate to and may have possibly picked up parasites

Kworker · Sep 22, 2015

If you can find a way to get fish directly from shipment box at a LFS I would go that way. I had great luck with ordering fish and bringing them directly home to go into QT and having the fish skip acclimation at the LFS. That also depends on the species of fish too.

Humblefish · Sep 22, 2015

This is what you need to do:

Stop buying new fish
Catch all fish that are left in your DT and get them into a QT
Treat in QT with copper for 30 days to cleanse your fish of ich/velvet
Go fallow (fishless) in the DT for 72 days to starve out any remaining parasites
Moving forward, QT any new fish additions before adding them to your DT

I know all of that sounds like it sucks. But if you don't do it, it's just going to be a never ending cycle of losing fish.

1wwoods7 · Sep 22, 2015

ksfulk said:
For right now, I wouldnt do either. You need to take care of your display tank (DT) and medicate the remaining fish you have in a quarantine tank (QT). Things like ich, velvet, bacterial infections, etc are all outlined in the fish disease forum and there are lots of resources on reef2reef to read and help diagnose your problems. Sounds to me like you introduced ich and possibly something else into your DT and its likely that the remaining fish are carrying the parasite, and that new additions will likely be compromised enough (health wise) to succumb to the parasite you have living in your tank.

I recommend quarantine - read the guide thats linked HERE. Then treat your tank - read the guide thats linked HERE. Slow down, do your homework and you wont have to lose all those beautiful fish.

Maybe @Humblefish can also weigh in on some options as well.

Well I still have copper in my tank and it is at .7 right now and i have had that for 3 weeks.

1wwoods7 · Sep 22, 2015

3FordFamily said:
Welcome home you'll love it here.

Qt everything but understand what you're doing first as ammonia can be a killer. For instance don't mix prime or amquel with most medications it will poison your fish.

Water changes are your friend.

I buy 95% of my fish online. Better selection and fewer water systems they had to acclimate to and may have possibly picked up parasites

So how can I avoid this because with all the fish except the ones who are still alive they last less then a week and I leave it at the fish store for a week?

1wwoods7 · Sep 22, 2015

Kworker said:
If you can find a way to get fish directly from shipment box at a LFS I would go that way. I had great luck with ordering fish and bringing them directly home to go into QT and having the fish skip acclimation at the LFS. That also depends on the species of fish too.

So getting them directly from the stores shipment do you get to pick which one you like or is it like shopping online where you get what comes in?

1wwoods7 · Sep 22, 2015

Humblefish said:
This is what you need to do:

Stop buying new fish

Catch all fish that are left in your DT and get them into a QT

Treat in QT with copper for 30 days to cleanse your fish of ich/velvet

Go fallow (fishless) in the DT for 72 days to starve out any remaining parasites

Moving forward, QT any new fish additions before adding them to your DT

I know all of that sounds like it sucks. But if you don't do it, it's just going to be a never ending cycle of losing fish.

So I have had copper in the tank for about 21 days now. Will that kill them or will it just stay in there until the fish are gone?

Humblefish · Sep 22, 2015

1wwoods7 said:
So I have had copper in the tank for about 21 days now. Will that kill them or will it just stay in there until the fish are gone?

You're using Cupramine in your DT? Have you been testing the Cu level daily? Rock/substrate can absorb a lot of copper.

1wwoods7 · Sep 22, 2015

Humblefish said:
You're using Cupramine in your DT? Have you been testing the Cu level daily? Rock/substrate can absorb a lot of copper.

Yes i am using cupramine and Yes i have tested it and my LFS has. For about the first week we could not get it past .1 for a full day and then all of a sudden we measured it and it was at .6 so they told me to add 2 drops of prime. The next day it was at .8 so i put 8 drops of prime in and i went back to the fish store and they tested and got .7. They told me to keep doing a have cap of prime until i am between .3 to .5.

4FordFamily · Sep 22, 2015

1wwoods7 said:
Yes i am using cupramine and Yes i have tested it and my LFS has. For about the first week we could not get it past .1 for a full day and then all of a sudden we measured it and it was at .6 so they told me to add 2 drops of prime. The next day it was at .8 so i put 8 drops of prime in and i went back to the fish store and they tested and got .7. They told me to keep doing a have cap of prime until i am between .3 to .5.

They suggested you add prime?!?

Find a new LFS that is horrendous advice. Prime should NEVER be used with copper nor should any other ammonia nitrite or nitrate detoxifier. Amquel is another.

Prime does not remove copper or anything for that matter. Please do not listen to your LFS any more or you will lose your fish for certain.

Prime is for reducing the toxicity of nitrite nitrate and ammonia. With meds in the water you need to just do water changes (be sure to replace the copper you remove). I used to do 85-% water changes with a full qt daily if need be to keep ammonia from killing the fish. Worked fantastic.

Get an ammonia badge by seachem. Other ammonia testers will show false positives with copper.

Humblefish · Sep 22, 2015

^^Agree with Ford.

1wwoods7 · Sep 23, 2015

3FordFamily said:
They suggested you add prime?!?

Find a new LFS that is horrendous advice. Prime should NEVER be used with copper nor should any other ammonia nitrite or nitrate detoxifier. Amquel is another.

Prime does not remove copper or anything for that matter. Please do not listen to your LFS any more or you will lose your fish for certain.

Prime is for reducing the toxicity of nitrite nitrate and ammonia. With meds in the water you need to just do water changes (be sure to replace the copper you remove). I used to do 85-% water changes with a full qt daily if need be to keep ammonia from killing the fish. Worked fantastic.

Get an ammonia badge by seachem. Other ammonia testers will show false positives with copper.

Okay. So when I tested last I had 0 ammonia and the last time i did a 5 gallon water change that is when my copper shot back up. So should I still do a water change?

Kworker · Sep 23, 2015

1wwoods7 said:
So getting them directly from the stores shipment do you get to pick which one you like or is it like shopping online where you get what comes in?

My situation varies probably. I know a store owner and order out a fish based on its latin name and pick the fish up right when the box gets to the store from the airport, I then head home and drip into QT. What arrives, arrives.. I've only ordered fish that ship well.

4FordFamily · Sep 23, 2015

1wwoods7 said:
Okay. So when I tested last I had 0 ammonia and the last time i did a 5 gallon water change that is when my copper shot back up. So should I still do a water change?

Don't dose prime while you have copper. If it shows 0 ammonia with any test other than an ammonia badge by seachem I would say you're not testing correctly or your kit is old. Are you using test strips? If so they're immensely inaccurate.

Never dose prime and copper it makes the copper toxic

Reefing Madness · Sep 25, 2015

1wwoods7 · Oct 17, 2015

3FordFamily said:
Don't dose prime while you have copper. If it shows 0 ammonia with any test other than an ammonia badge by seachem I would say you're not testing correctly or your kit is old. Are you using test strips? If so they're immensely inaccurate.

Never dose prime and copper it makes the copper toxic

I stopped using the prime and now I have been able to maintain the copper between .3 and .5