New Gyre knock off

[Justiful]

@timkenagy
I see what your saying. I agree with it. But litigation is not a long term solution. There will always be new products, and there will always be clones coming out. Everytime gibson launches a new tech, body, or design, the chinese are copying it. Except... Epiphone always releases the clone about the same time or sooner as it was already developed. Preventing them from gaining market share. Gibson and Fenders model has prevented the guitar industry from being flooded with off-brand guitars in the western world. It is a great model from protecting market share, as well as maximizing profits off R&D.

Dow Chemicals same deal. They make many name brand Premium products. But they also make offbrand products using the same technology, and enterprise level products. They are maximizing their R&D by capitalizing on all economic levels of a given market they are in. New products tend to hit the premium line up first, then the offbrands. Look at cars, computers, printers, phones. You need to prepare for the competition. Litigation has a place but it is a small part of the solution.

 

[Justiful]

Do you realistically think that Tunze could design and produce a pump, however slightly lower quality it may be than their flagship line, manufacture it, export it to the US and retail it for $45-$55; pump, controller and power supply included?

I'm not arguing your point, I agree with and understand what you're saying, I'm just not sure that it's 100% plausible in this particular case.

Sure they can. I do believe that. I also believe they have a pricing margin of 15% to play with. As a subsidiary of a respected brand you always have wiggle room to be higher priced than direct competitors. Jebao is just copying products, there is no reason Tunze can't make a copy themselves of their products, have it manufactured in china and shipped stateside.

EDIT:
Actually they can save some costs on the flagship product now that I think of it. Volume discounts add up. If they use some of the same molds, wire suppliers, glue suppliers, ext, cross product they will save money. They can get into a new mid-range market, while increasing profit margins in their premium market.

 

[timkenagy]

@timkenagy
I see what your saying. I agree with it. But litigation is not a long term solution. There will always be new products, and their will always be clones coming out. Everytime gibson launches a new tech, body, or design, the chinese are copying it. Except... Epiphone always releases the clone about the same time or sooner as it was already developed. Preventing them from gaining market share. Gibson and Fenders model has prevented the guitar industry from being flooded with off-brand guitars in the western world. It is a great model from protecting market share, as well as maximizing profits off R&D.

Dow Chemicals same deal. They make many name brand Premium products. But they also make offbrand products using the same technology, and enterprise level products. They are maximizing their R&D by capitalizing on all economic levels of a given market they are in. New products tend to hit the premium line up first, then the offbrands. Look at cars, computers, printers, phones. You need to prepare for the competition. Litigation has a place but it is a small part of the solution.

I can see your argument with say the mp40 wit vortech. That would be a great way for them to combat the world-40's (I don't feel those were in fact knock offs as there's several companies making similar powerheads) I think the mp 40 is a fantastic product and I would love to have them in my tank. Fact is even if Jaebo didn't exist I wouldn't own an mp40.. Not because they're not good but because I simply cannot afford $700.00 to move water on my reef tank. Especially when there's other viable options. And realistically Ecotech could offer a cheaper alternative imo.. But the gyre is a new concept design that I feel we as hobbiest need to say hey Jaebo.. There's a line and you just crossed it. What is the future innovations worth to us really?

 

[Justiful]

But the gyre is a new concept design that I feel we as hobbiest need to say hey Jaebo.. There's a line and you just crossed it. What is the future innovations worth to us really?

Your right. As a hobbyist I can't do anything about business decisions they make or don't make. But I can choose to not buy this Jebao product. I just get a little frustrated at how some of these companies do things, despite the fact they make amazing products. Plus it is 4am lol.

 

[Omega0397]

I own both a Maxspect Gyre 130 and a Jebao RW4. I haven't had problems with either of them yet and they have both been running for a year or more. I think any product can have problems and both of those products have. However, both companies seem to stand behind their products. The reason Jebao has stuck around so long is that their re-sellers here in the US stand behind their product warranties just like the more respectable brands. I understand the frustration that many feel over blatant copying of products, but at the same time I don't pity the larger brands that much either. If you think they don't price gouge then consider how much you pay for a brand new controllable powerhead/LED that hasn't had it's design changed in 3 or more years. Would you pay the same in 2016 for a 2013 model of car?

 

[Clayalaleona]

I'd buy it just to test it out on my frag and display tanks, why not? If I can find it at wholesale cost(which jebao is known to do sometimes) I would definitely get it.
IMO Vortech pumps and Gyres are wonderful but I would rather spend that money on corals. On the Radion lights I happily spent the money, on a product that moves water I would rather not. I can purchase almost any Jebao product, have it break down once or twice, replace it and it would still be cheaper than its higher end counterparts. I'm sure its expensive to manufacture them(MP40's/Gyres) but theres no reason for them to be THAT expensive. Heck, the stores arent even making much money off of them. There are products(including Vortech pumps, lights etc) that LFS's only make $20-30 sometimes IF theyre lucky its something like $70... so all the profit is going to the manufacturer its not like everyone is getting a piece of the pie.
People will continue to buy the Vortech and Gyres, theyre not going to go broke over some cheap competition.... if anything it'll push them to innovate and add more features.

 

[TheEngineer]

I have removed the link to the sale of this product. We are not going to support this in any way. Thanks.

I'm not a religious man, but AMEN!

 

[Saltine]

I'd buy it just to test it out on my frag and display tanks, why not? If I can find it at wholesale cost(which jebao is known to do sometimes) I would definitely get it.
IMO Vortech pumps and Gyres are wonderful but I would rather spend that money on corals. On the Radion lights I happily spent the money, on a product that moves water I would rather not. I can purchase almost any Jebao product, have it break down once or twice, replace it and it would still be cheaper than its higher end counterparts. I'm sure its expensive to manufacture them(MP40's/Gyres) but theres no reason for them to be THAT expensive. Heck, the stores arent even making much money off of them. There are products(including Vortech pumps, lights etc) that LFS's only make $20-30 sometimes IF theyre lucky its something like $70... so all the profit is going to the manufacturer its not like everyone is getting a piece of the pie.
People will continue to buy the Vortech and Gyres, theyre not going to go broke over some cheap competition.... if anything it'll push them to innovate and add more features.

I agree with this.

This should actual cause more innovation not less. This type of reverse engineering happens daily even in the US. Heck even in my work experiences I've seen competitors copy our product, ya it's frustrating, but the legal bills are more than the cost of providing exceptional customer service and innovating the product further....

As long as gyre continues to add excellent features or upgrades jebao won't be able to catch up. But if they make a pump and don't plan to actually work to make it better, this would sting quite a bit.

Salt

 

[Diesel]

Apparently this is working, Jeabo is keeping the knockoffs off the US market.

December 24, 2015
SENT VIA EMAIL ONLY
Re: U.S. Patent Application Publication No. 2015/0292507 A1
Title: CROSS-FLOW WAVE MAKING PUMP
By: Guangzhou Maiguang Electronic Science Technology Co., Ltd., d.b.a. Maxspect
Sheridan Law Ref. 81151.0001Dear Sirs:
Guangzhou Maiguang Electronic Science Technology Co., Ltd., d.b.a. Maxspect (hereinafter “Maxspect”) is the owner of a utility patent application, which includes claim coverage directed to a cross-flow wave making pump. As a reference, enclosed is U.S. Patent Application Publication No. US 2015/0292507 A1.

I note from two articles in ReefBuilders.com that industry intelligence indicates that Jebao Co., Ltd. or related entities have designed and may offer a Jecod CP-45, a Jecod CP-25, or other related equipment which is described and illustrated as a “Cross-Flow Wave Pump”. As a reference, enclosed are copies of the two articles as well as a portion of the website at the aboveidentified URL. This equipment may ultimately infringe one or more claims of the pending patent application of the above-identified U.S. patent application publication. Under the provisional rights provisions added to the Patent Act in 1999, a claimant can recover damages (after the patent issues) if it gives notice to the target of the claims after the pending application is published. See, 35 USC 154(d).

At this time, Maxspect would be pleased to discuss various options to provide you with the ability to avoid liability for infringement under provisional rights provisions related to the above-identified patent application. If you are of the opinion that you do not need to take any action at this time with Maxspect, it would be helpful if you could give us some insight into your reasons. Infringement may occur through making, using, or selling a product in conflict with the claims of the above-identified patent application publication. Maxspect may elect to seek damages from one or both of sellers or manufacturers of infringing products.

Please contact me at your earliest convenience to address this matter.

Sincerely,

James A. Sheridan Sheridan Law LLC



Better yet a friendly warning as in a "cease and desist letter" for the knockoffs to account holders from Maxspect/CV products is on it's place here.

 

[Tank2379]

They'll find a loophole somehow... I don't care to much about those pumps I rather buy American

 

[redfishbluefish]

They'll find a loophole somehow... I don't care to much about those pumps I rather buy American

I don't believe there is an American pump manufacturer. Does anyone know of one?

 

[fredro]

I don't believe there is an American pump manufacturer. Does anyone know of one?

EcoTech Marine

 

[Falk]

This product is a knock off but the vortech patent deals with the driving side of the pump being outside the tank the jebaos do not have that. Here the patent hasn't been issue yet and for the most part every county has its own patent system that they would need to obtain a patent in. So Jebao should be able to find somewhere they can legally sell this.

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

Hi Rev,
This was an omg thread....not a suggest you buy it thread.....just wanted you to know where I was coming from starting it....couldn't believe my eyes when I saw this...

Oh I know that and I am sorry you thought I meant that towards you. I don't even want people to visit their product sites. Good discussion!

 

[Diesel]

This product is a knock off but the vortech patent deals with the driving side of the pump being outside the tank the jebaos do not have that. Here the patent hasn't been issue yet and for the most part every county has its own patent system that they would need to obtain a patent in. So Jebao should be able to find somewhere they can legally sell this.

We not discussing Vortech pumps here.
Maxpext Gyre vs the chinese knockoff of the gyre version.

 

[indecloudzua]

Screw Chinese crap products

 

[Falk]

We not discussing Vortech pumps here.
Maxpext Gyre vs the chinese knockoff of the gyre version.

I understand that but everyone keeps saying Jebao is at it again...and compare Vortech to WP series. Vortech variable speed pump was not new it was the outside driver. Just clearing up the argument.

The gyre is a totally different ball game and if and when the patent issues they would be in violation in the united states but they are not making or selling it here (yet).

 

[redfishbluefish]

EcoTech Marine

Hmmmmmm! Why do their Vectra pumps have British pipe threading? Why does my MP40 power supply say "Made in China." I will give them one thing.....on some parts it does say, "Assembled in the USA."

 

[luke33]

Has everyone forgot about the led patent that was out roughly 6-7yrs ago and how AI had to pay royalties and what not.............good thing that held up and no one else made aquarium led fixture's : )

I do not believe this will hold up unfortunately since it is China we are talking about. But again, with prices in the 140-170 range, its not going to hurt Maxspect anyhow.

 

[Diesel]

I understand that but everyone keeps saying Jebao is at it again...and compare Vortech to WP series. Vortech variable speed pump was not new it was the outside driver. Just clearing up the argument.

The gyre is a totally different ball game and if and when the patent issues they would be in violation in the united states but they are not making or selling it here (yet).

Not everyone but I like to stick to the subject, title of this thread "New Gyre knock off"