New idea!! For filtration sump orientation.

[K7BMG]

I cant believe I am the one bringing this up. I don't feel I am the sharpest reefer tool in the shed but I have been wondering if we have had things backwards when it comes to sump orentation layout.
Maybe I am crazy but here is my thought.

So those who want to run a refugium, well, are not all the current sumps on the market today set up wrong? The refugium needs fed with all the nutrients from the DT correct.
Then why are the sumps set up with filter socks or roller matts BEFORE the fuge section?

Would it not be better to have the means of particulate removal just before the return pump section?

In my mind, this would give the benefit of feeding the algae with everything it needs.

There are many people here and vendor recommendations that particulate filters should not be used if a refugium is in place. The Triton method that I use recommends this.

The particulate filter of ones choice IMO, should be at the end just before the water returns to the DT yes? This setup will keep the particulates from getting into the DT.

Am I missing the theory here, overlooking something, overthinking?

Thoughts-----questions------ crazy idea or maybe I am onto something?

 

[scottedontknow]

Tons of people dont run ANY kind of filter at all. I think its all based on what your plan for the tank is, I run socks BEFORE my skimmer and refug. Im a big fan of a clean sump i also love that my marinepure blocks never get clogged up. My cheato still grows like weeds i also run the triton method (i run the socks even though they say not to lol OCD gets the best of me sometimes). been going on for over a year now with no ill effects. Its also a common to see sumps with a filter pad right before the return pump to clean up the water before going to the pump. To each their own imo

 

[K7BMG]

Well when I finish the current project my next one is going to be adding a sump to my Nano tank.
I am going to arrange the sump in such a way to test my theory.

 

[SMSREEF]

Part of my reason for refugium will be growing pods and hoping some get back into display so in my case there needs to be free flow back to display.

 

[bjc451]

That’s why I am thinking of adding on a hob refugium. I don’t have space for a refugium in the sump. If I hang it on I can have the pods go right in the tank

 

[Silent]

Many people dont want detritus building up in their sumps therefore easily removing particles with a filter sock or equivalent is easier than vacuuming a sump out.

 

[K7BMG]

Many people dont want detritus building up in their sumps therefore easily removing particles with a filter sock or equivalent is easier than vacuuming a sump out.

I find it easier to clean the sump vs the DT by far.
Pull out the algae and skimmer all thats left are empty chambers to clean. No disrupting fish or corals. Again my opinion here on that.

 

[bjc451]

I like a clean sump too last time I hooked up a poly fill in water bottle on a pump and just polished the sump water

 

[fish farmer]

Many moons ago when folks ran trickle filters, there was a tray for a filter pad before the media and a place for a foam block before the return pump.

Sumps are like automobiles....designs vary....pick the design that works for you.

Years ago there were debates about having refuges IN sumps for fear of the return pumps grinding up all the life forms being produced in the refuge.

 

[bjc451]

I kinda believe that. If the pods are in the refugium a safe haven with a food source why would they leave only to be trapped by a sponge and chopped up in the pump.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

I cant believe I am the one bringing this up. I don't feel I am the sharpest reefer tool in the shed but I have been wondering if we have had things backwards when it comes to sump orentation layout.
Maybe I am crazy but here is my thought.

So those who want to run a refugium, well, are not all the current sumps on the market today set up wrong? The refugium needs fed with all the nutrients from the DT correct.
Then why are the sumps set up with filter socks or roller matts BEFORE the fuge section?

Would it not be better to have the means of particulate removal just before the return pump section?

In my mind, this would give the benefit of feeding the algae with everything it needs.

There are many people here and vendor recommendations that particulate filters should not be used if a refugium is in place. The Triton method that I use recommends this.

The particulate filter of ones choice IMO, should be at the end just before the water returns to the DT yes? This setup will keep the particulates from getting into the DT.

Am I missing the theory here, overlooking something, overthinking?

Thoughts-----questions------ crazy idea or maybe I am onto something?

For me, I've set up a DE filter on discharge of return pump. Done wonders for me.
Proof is in the Pudding

 

[bjc451]

What is a de filter

 

[symon_say]

Filter after refugium is not the best position:

1. It will do the same work but worse.
2. It will trap micro fauna before it goes into display.
3. You still need to change every few days.

I don't use filter socks regularly, I just put it in when us maintenance day an turn all pumps to maximum power while working, an have a powerhead in the fuge that turns on every few hours to keep detritus suspended.

 

[landlubber]

I had a sump built that has the tank inlet go straight into the refugium and then it progresses into the skimmer chamber, bubble trap and then back to the display. there is no mechanical filtration.
the cheato itself seems to purify the water really well and I never have debris floating around. despite the skimmer and return pumps downstream of my fuge, I still manage to have a very strong pod population.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

What is a de filter

diatomaceous earth filtration, homemade filter. Search in R2R home page. See others using them

 

[BornHandy]

Designing filtration has always seemed fun to me, so I've been down this road too. It's a good thought, but here is why it isn't commonly used.

Filter socks come first because particulates are not what the algae is looking for, and particulates are also not directly what fouls up your water - its the dissolved organics that do that. We want to pull the particulates before they break down into dissolved organics, and so we run a filter sock, roller mats and to some extent, a skimmer (some always get through the first lone of defense).

After particulates have broken down into DOC's (dissolved organic compounds), they'll pass right through a filter sock just as the water does, so the refugium comes into play... The algae takes up the DOC's, then we remove some of the algae from time to time as a nutrient export method. The skimmer helps here too.

The algae and skimmer can't get everything, so we run carbon, GFO, or other types of media to polish the water off.

As a bonus, the fuge grows a ton of micor-fauna that feeds our tanks, so we don't want a filter sock trapping the pods or larvae before they're sucked into the pump and blown into the display....

Hope that clears things up, and keep thinking. You may be the designer of the next hot design...

 

[hart24601]

Designing filtration has always seemed fun to me, so I've been down this road too. It's a good thought, but here is why it isn't commonly used.

Filter socks come first because particulates are not what the algae is looking for, and particulates are also not directly what fouls up your water - its the dissolved organics that do that. We want to pull the particulates before they break down into dissolved organics, and so we run a filter sock, roller mats and to some extent, a skimmer (some always get through the first lone of defense).

After particulates have broken down into DOC's (dissolved organic compounds), they'll pass right through a filter sock just as the water does, so the refugium comes into play... The algae takes up the DOC's, then we remove some of the algae from time to time as a nutrient export method. The skimmer helps here too.

The algae and skimmer can't get everything, so we run carbon, GFO, or other types of media to polish the water off.

As a bonus, the fuge grows a ton of micor-fauna that feeds our tanks, so we don't want a filter sock trapping the pods or larvae before they're sucked into the pump and blown into the display....

Hope that clears things up, and keep thinking. You may be the designer of the next hot design...

I was going to say the same thing. Ideally socks and other mechanical filtration allows you to export before it breaks down. More efficient to remove from the system and be done with it.

Other reason being to prevent detritus clogging the macro. Of could like many things reef you don’t need mechanical filtration or even refugiums, just about any combo or even lack of, can work well.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Well when I finish the current project my next one is going to be adding a sump to my Nano tank.
I am going to arrange the sump in such a way to test my theory.

There would be a whole lot of micron particles making it back to the tank as well as sediment to the refugium. There is adequate nutrients after filtration for the fuge and im amazed as to what my filter socks catch that i will always use them

 

[bjc451]

So what should I do with detritus In the sump. I’m getting ready to do a water change tommorow. I added a bottle of pods 2 weeks ago. It is a new system going through ugly stage. I have 2 mesh bags of rubble. 1 easily comes out. I have been putting it in the display every night. Since it is water change anyway I took the skimmer out added the big bag of the rubble tonight turned off pumps let it sit awhile. It really made a mess in the tank. Removed the sponge. Then blasted the light to hope if I had some that they would scatter. But the chamber the skimmer stand sits on I did see some sort of bug crawling. Should I siphon and clean the sump or try to build a pod population

 

[Silent]

I find it easier to clean the sump vs the DT by far.
Pull out the algae and skimmer all thats left are empty chambers to clean. No disrupting fish or corals. Again my opinion here on that.

Point is, with filter socks being the first stage of a sump you won't have to clean the sump very often.