New in saltwater need help with some questions

Hector23 · Jul 21, 2017

Hi new to the hobby!
Definitely addictive.
I have some questions please help.
I just started my first 20g tank with 20 lbs of live sand from caribsea. with 20lbs of dry reef rock from caribsea witch I cleaned extremely well, and 5lbs of live rock from my local pet store witch looked in pretty good condition but after a week it has some white parts like very little why is that? And is it dying?

I set my tank up about a week and a half ago.
I let it sit for two days and had no ammonia nitrite or nitrate. So I added two shrimps. And let it sit for 24 hours. I then took them out and tested again. I had 4.0ppm on my ammonia, 0.25ppm on my nitrite and 0ppm on my nitrate.
I've from then done two small water changes. And I have not yet gotten any different results with my testing.
I did go to my local pet store and the guy I talk to said he set up tanks like I did and used bio spira after a couple of days with ammonia and added fish within 5 days later? And never has had any problems with his tank at all so I guess I can say he convinced me... how I said I'm new and should I use this product or wait and see what happens. Also if I have dry rock in my tank and after I am done with my cycle and add fish, how long after I can add any coral?... and is so can I add any coral on my dry rock or just on my live rock??

Ashish Patel · Jul 21, 2017

Your thinking too much into this.. All a cycle is a development of good bacteria which will process your animals waste so they don't choke on their waste (ammonia). You should have added the shrimp on day 1 along with biospira. First ammonia rises, then nitrite, then Nitrate. Once everything is zero your ready for fish. My cycle took about 10 days with bio-spira so I added my first 2 clownfish then. Remember ammonia is toxic aswell is nitrite. Nitrate is the end product of the cycle and some trace in the water is fine but aslong as its under 5ppm. Since your new don't think your tank is ready to be fully stocked. add 2 clownfish, if they do well a month later add another fish, etc. good luck

nervousmonkey · Jul 21, 2017

Howdy Hector! Welcome to R2R buddy! And welcome to saltwater reefing, we are glad to have you. Calling #reefsquad for the welcome party. Were you into freshwater aquariums before this?
Yeah, I agree with Ashish, and it's OK to overthink this. We have all done it and we all do it.

As Ashish said, you are just waiting for the bacteria to populate the tank enough to process the fish waste into nitrite and nitrate. So, what the store guy is doing is using biospira to add bacteria to the tank to speed up the process. There are a few products like this on the market. Anyway, what he was subtly (or not so subtly) telling you was to buy the biospira that his store sells, but you passed the first test of a reefer: escaping with your money!!! Don't worry though, that won't last.
The bacteria live in porous rocks, and by purchasing live rock from the fish store, you helped mitigate the need for a cycle. Though 5 pounds in a 20 G isn't enough to skip the cycle; your dry rock will eventually get populated from the live rock you bought, so you can, as you have accurately noted, wait, or you can add a product to help cycle your tank such as biospira or Dr. Tims One and Only or Microbacter7 or... , and you should put an ammonia source back in your tank (nasty rotting shrimpses). Actually, a better way to accurately get a cycle going is to add ammonia (great place to buy it is ACE Hardware) to a level of 5 ppm, then when your system has processed it to zero within 24 hours, your cycle is said to be completed. It may be and may not be though, so I stick around until my nitrite levels also go to zero (you don't care if this is within 24 hours, just that it gets done). This allows you to get rid of those nasty ol shrimp, and gives you time to research what fish and corals go well together. ;Bookworm;Bookworm;Bookworm
So now you are ready for fish. Don't add them too fast, as the bacterial load isn't enough to handle that much fish poo/pee. Your tank is the toilets at Super Bowl at halftime, which conjures up a horribly nasty image. Yuck I wish I hadn't said that out loud... Anyway, add your fisheroos slowly, check to see fish compatibility charts and what will work together.
You can safely add some corals as well at this point, although that's a whole slew of questions. And you can add them to the dry rock too.

However, Mike Paletta wrote a great article about dead vs. live rock here. Read that one for some enlightenment, name dropping and some pictures. I hope this helped @Hector23 !! Don't forget to ;Bookworm;Bookworm;Bookworm;Bookworm and ask questions! ;Yawn;Yawn;Yawn

Maritimer · Jul 21, 2017

Welcome aboard, Hector!

There's liverock, and there's liverock - white spots on it could be snail eggs, sponge growth or dying coralline or other algae. A photo of it might help ID that.

Bio-Spira is a colony of bacteria in a purple bottle. The rotting shrimp provides ammonia, which is food for the helpful bacteria you're trying to cultivate, a bottle of Bio-Spira helps make sure you've got some of the bacteria you want to start feeding and breeding. (There are a lot of different kinds of bacteria, some more helpful than others . . . ) You'll want to test the water, and watch ammonia rise (sounds like you're there!) and fall, to be replaced by nitrite and eventually the slow rise of nitrates. Later on, you'll encounter another bacteria which lives deep in your rock - these little guys eat nitrates and convert them to nitrogen gas.

Always lots to learn!

~Bruce

jsker · Jul 21, 2017

Welcome to R2R Hector

It looks like you have some pretty good advice in the above posts, the only thing I would add is patients with reefing goes a long way.

dbl · Jul 21, 2017

Welcome to R2R and to the hobby. All can seem a little overwhelming at times but you've gotten good advice on the cycling part. I would echo what @jsker said above...patience is key in this hobby. I know it's exciting to get some life in to the tank, but take is slow and you will be rewarded down the road.

glb · Jul 21, 2017

Welcome! I agree that pure ammonia is a great way to cycle. I used that and Dr. Tim's One and Only bacteria. You'll see ammonia, then nitrites and finally nitrates. Once your ammonia and nitrites are zero for two days after dosing the ammonia, your cycle is complete. Ask a ton of questions here. We all want to help!

john.m.cole3 · Jul 21, 2017

WELCOME TO R2R!!!!!!!!! We are super excited to have you here and we are happy to answer any questions you may have. To really get a grasp of what's going on with reef tanks in general, I would advise you to sign up to the emails. Every dy or 2 R2R will send you an email with the most rtalked about topics going on over here. Reef2Reef is such a great place because you get to chat with experts and regular ole reefers like me and you. Above all, R2R is the friendliest saltwater forum out there. We do not tolerate talking down to or ridiculing others like you may find elsewhere.

When you post, if you want to get more eyes on your issue, simply type in #reefsquad like @nervousmobkey did at the top.

Get ready to be a part of the best hobby there is! you've already made a good choice by signing up over here. Have a great weekend!!!

Ashish Patel · Jul 21, 2017

The 3 most important thing for a new hobbyist to understand is:

1. Nutrient export: Food = fish poop = Ammonia/Nitrite = Nitrate and also Phosphates. Their are many ways ppl successfuly control this. Choose one that works for you and stick with it. Avoid anything that can strip your nutrient to fast such as vodka dosing, bio pellet, or GFO. Nitrate/Phosphate is needed for growth of corals otherwise they will starve - If nitrate is too high and nothing is processing it then you'll have major issues. Phosphates too high - issues with algae amongst many other things. This goes hand in hand with the #2

2. Stocking, Bio-load, Compatibility of fish/inverts/corals - Since your new you will want to overcrowd (its just that simple - we all done it) - this will just stress out your tank and put more stress on biological filter (aka ammonia processing center). Research exactly what you want in your tank and have 3 cycles of adding the fish - put the more peaceful fish first... Get fish that acclimate well to captivity. If your adding corals its very important to dip and acclimate them to the tank as well as light.

3. Testing your water and Consumption of trace elements. Test Test test. After the cycle you can focus on testing Nitrate, Phosphate, Calcium, and Alkalinity. Magnesium you can test infrequently and ammonia and nitrite will remain undetectable assuming you cycled and stocked you tank accordingly.

Hector23 · Jul 21, 2017

Tanks everyone for your warming welcoming I am super excited.
Also thank you for all your responses and amazing advise, it really helped me understand the process much better.

I did all my readings this morning and had a slightly change, my ammonia has gotten better from 4ppm to about 3ppm,
My nitrite has raised from 0.25ppm to 0.50ppm
And my nitrate is still at 0ppm,
Tomorrow will be exactly two weeks since I put up my tank do you guys think that there is progress on my cycling? Or should I add more ammonia source and add bio spira product?

Nervousmonkey" do you think I should add more live rock? Or you think that would be enough to seed my 20lb of dry rock.
LOL I wish I had not imagined the super bowl at halftime

Ashish after I am done with my cycling and it's the right time to add fish, I was planning on adding two clown fishes well. how did your do? And are clown fish good fish for a new tank set up?

After about a month that I added my clown fish I am wanting to add coral I will be doing more research on that today, like witch are good first corals and witch corals do good with what fish.
After how long can I start testing for my tank maturity? Can I start now or after a while that I add my fish?
And thank you all again y'all be super i hope everyone has a great weekend.

GoVols · Jul 21, 2017

Hector23 said:
Tanks everyone for your warming welcoming I am super excited.

Hector,
You are already in wonderful hands in the above post.

Welcome to the R2R family and we are all happy that your here too.

Freddie

Ashish Patel · Jul 21, 2017

Ashish after I am done with my cycling and it's the right time to add fish, I was planning on adding two clown fishes well. how did your do? And are clown fish good fish for a new tank set up?[/QUOTE]

Your cycle is fine and you do not need to add any ammonia. Your nitrates won't rise until ammonia goes to 0. Its pretty much bacteria that coverts ammonia into less harmful nitrate. before going through nitrite.. You with me? Everything rises at different times so all normal.

My 2 clownfish are great... Clownfish are mostly all tank raised now so very hardy regardless of where you get them from. However, make sure you inspect all other tanks inhabitants and livestock; if other fish look unhealthy (blurry eyes, white spots, lack of swimming, etc), chances are that a seemingly healthy clownfish may hold a parasite. Rookie mistake to avoid!

Your first corals should be mushrooms, zoas (polyps), toadstools, Later perhaps you can add some LPS such as Hammer corals. Did you use all Dry rock? If so id advice to seed it with some real LR otherwise your tank maturity will take forever. All you need is 1 medium size piece of LR and your tank will mature much faster (more good bacteria). Learn what aiptasia is now and avoid it like the plague! I think you can get away with a mushroom after 1 month and see if you can keep it alive.

refridgeRAIDER · Jul 21, 2017

Welcome to r2r!

Hector23 · Jul 21, 2017

Quick question what kind of lighting do y'all use for your reef? My tank is 20g and it's 30" wide, witch would work best for me?

nervousmonkey · Jul 21, 2017

Hector23 said:
Nervousmonkey" do you think I should add more live rock? Or you think that would be enough to seed my 20lb of dry rock.
LOL I wish I had not imagined the super bowl at halftime

No, you're fine with the amount of LR you have. 20 pounds is sufficient. Do you have a sump? If not it's fine, there are some other nutrient export methods available.
LOL, I regretted that reference as soon as I hit Post Reply. ;Yuck;Yuck;Yuck;Yuck
In terms of adding corals, testing your water for maturity is good, but there is no test for that. But life in your tank is what constitutes a mature tank, so adding it always helps. ReefBugs are one good source. But you'll know by the health of your corals and fish, which is something that experience is best with...