New lights maybe? Sps going brown

DomiD · Mar 17, 2020

Hi everyone

I'm currently running the viperspectre 300w (glorified blackbox) over my tank and other than being an eyesore its seems to grow my softies(gsp mushrooms and leathers) fine but lps polyps come nice and big but no growth what's so ever hammers and have been in nearly year and nothing and sps browns out and eventually dies I run blues on 65% and whites on 10% and currently suspended 12 inches above tank have been looking at ref 90's purely for ease of use and aesthetics

Tank params are the following

Nitrate between 5-10
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Ph 8
calcium 460
Dkh 8 or 132 ish I think from memory
Mag 1350
Sal 1.027
Phos .25
Currently running 2 x cp2 gyre wave makers and jabeo sw8 so dont think flow is and issue

Any recommendations on lights suggestions would be really welcome I want to get into sps but dont want to keep killing it?

Thanks in advance I've also attached a pic of tank thanks any constructive criticism is welcome

Ron Reefman · Mar 17, 2020

My concern is your power levels and the age of the fixture? At 65% blue and 10% white you might be running with a PAR that is too low. And the lack of white light may be contributing to the lack of pigment (coloration). Yes, the zooxanthellae use blue to do photosynthesis, but there are other processes at work in the coral that can use more white or red. I'd run the whites at a higher level for at least 4 to 6 hours during the midday. Have you ever tested your PAR? If you've had the fixture for 4 or 5 years or more, the intensity of the leds may have weakened some... probably not much, but some.

In good shape and at the right PAR levels the Viparspectra is a very good led as far as the actual light goes. It is a bit of an eyesore as a black box. If you are looking at new and want more control, consider a Reef Breeders Photon V2+. I had a great sps tank under one until my chiller thermostat looked up and cooled the tank down below 60F one night. All my sps corals were white skeletons by noon the next day. Zoas, lps and RFAs all survived just fine.

Good luck. Hope this helps.

DeniableArc · Mar 17, 2020

Hi mate I think that viper spectre 300w is a horticultural style light

DomiD · Mar 17, 2020

Ron Reefman said:
My concern is your power levels and the age of the fixture? At 65% blue and 10% white you might be running with a PAR that is too low. And the lack of white light may be contributing to the lack of pigment (coloration). Yes, the zooxanthellae use blue to do photosynthesis, but there are other processes at work in the coral that can use more white or red. I'd run the whites at a higher level for at least 4 to 6 hours during the midday. Have you ever tested your PAR? If you've had the fixture for 4 or 5 years or more, the intensity of the leds may have weakened some... probably not much, but some.

In good shape and at the right PAR levels the Viparspectra is a very good led as far as the actual light goes. It is a bit of an eyesore as a black box. If you are looking at new and want more control, consider a Reef Breeders Photon V2+. I had a great sps tank under one until my chiller thermostat looked up and cooled the tank down below 60F one night. All my sps corals were white skeletons by noon the next day. Zoas, lps and RFAs all survived just fine.

Good luck. Hope this helps.

Hi sorry to hear about the chiller incident i would be gutted if something like that happened the light about 8 months old approx to be honest I was worried about turning up to much as it's so bright and looking at the par readings brs gave it think it's about 900 ish 6inch from surface on 100% I will boost the whites up a tad see what happens but on the other side I do want something that will look nice hmm I will look into the reef breeders light aswell thanks for the reply

CuzzA · Mar 17, 2020

Po4 at .25. You'll have brown SPS with little growth and ultimately they'll die.

Target should be .05 -.1.

I have never tried to have a softy dominated tank with sps. Haven't seen many great examples of that working.

najer · Mar 17, 2020

Up the levels slowly like one or two percent at a time.
Are your nitrates really zero, I'd like to see that up a bit for everyone's health, not that they look unhealthy but corals need nitrates and phos as well?

DomiD · Mar 17, 2020

najer said:
Up the levels slowly like one or two percent at a time.
Are your nitrates really zero, I'd like to see that up a bit for everyone's health, not that they look unhealthy but corals need nitrates and phos as well?

Nitrates 5 to 10 nitrite is 0

najer · Mar 17, 2020

DomiD said:
Nitrates 5 to 10 nitrite is 0

Sorry, my bad.

DomiD · Mar 17, 2020

CuzzA said:
Po4 at .25. You'll have brown SPS with little growth and ultimately they'll die.

Target should be .05 -.1.

I have never tried to have a softy dominated tank with sps. Haven't seen many great examples of that working.

Any suggestion of the best way to drop them I've recently started a refugium in one of the back chambers and put a bag of rowaphos in aswell I was suffering with dinos and was over feeding as had zero phos and nitrate and dinos were everywhere and now gone haven't been able to get them down since the dinos went away also 10 to 20% water changes weekly

DomiD · Mar 17, 2020

najer said:
Sorry, my bad.

No worries dude but thanks for the reply

CuzzA · Mar 17, 2020

DomiD said:
Any suggestion of the best way to drop them I've recently started a refugium in one of the back chambers and put a bag of rowaphos in aswell I was suffering with dinos and was over feeding as had zero phos and nitrate and dinos were everywhere and now gone haven't been able to get them down since the dinos went away also 10 to 20% water changes weekly

GFO in a reactor is all I've ever done and staying on top of mechanical filter maintenance, but doing so could jeopardize the health of a lot of the species you have. While I have a mixed tank, mine is SPS dominate and the only softies are zoas and sympodium. Many soft corals use toxins to gain real estate so for that reason I think you should just skip the SPS. I'm not saying it can't be done, but intense lighting, lots of GAC and keeping po4 under .1 may give you a chance. If you feel like you want to move toward SPS, then I'd rehome some of the more toxic softies and try your hand at easier to keep SPS. Then maybe you'll catch the bug and you can try harder to keep SPS.

45ZoaGarden · Mar 17, 2020

CuzzA said:
GFO in a reactor is all I've ever done and staying on top of mechanical filter maintenance, but doing so could jeopardize the health of a lot of the species you have. While I have a mixed tank, mine is SPS dominate and the only softies are zoas and sympodium. Many soft corals use toxins to gain real estate so for that reason I think you should just skip the SPS. I'm not saying it can't be done, but intense lighting, lots of GAC and keeping po4 under .1 may give you a chance. If you feel like you want to move toward SPS, then I'd rehome some of the more toxic softies and try your hand at easier to keep SPS. Then maybe you'll catch the bug and you can try harder to keep SPS.

+1. You don’t necessarily have to get rid of the leathers if you run carbon. Gfo is your best bet imo.

DomiD · Mar 18, 2020

45ZoaGarden said:
+1. You don’t necessarily have to get rid of the leathers if you run carbon. Gfo is your best bet imo.

thanks so much for the reply my plan is maybe to slowly go to sps but as only been doing it just over a year its very much trial and error and one massive learning curve will go and look for a reactor just want to get the ones I have to grow and this all part of it thanks again

Bpb · Mar 18, 2020

Haven't seen it mentioned yet, but at a year old you can box up your ammonia and nitrite test kits and save them if you cycle a new tank within the next couple years before they expire. Unless you do something to kill several fish and notice large amounts of corals dying, you shouldn't concern yourself with ammonia or nitrite. That should save you some maintenance time.

Secondly I would strongly suggest buying or renting a PAR meter...Probably renting one or borrowing would be more economical. Your SPS will be happier and show better colors over 300 par. your Softies and LPS will show happier colors and polyp size under 100-200 par (in my experience). If you know your light levels you can place corals alot more appropriately rather than just guessing.

Third. Phosphate is a bit high. I've seen plenty of nice SPS tanks with PO4 that high, but it's more of an exception to the rule. I'd advise lowering it below 0.1 slowly over a couple weeks. Test that more frequently with a high quality low range high resolution test kit (not the API kit).

Otherwise just be patient. SPS can take some time to start looking pretty even when everything is perfect

45ZoaGarden · Mar 18, 2020

Yup! Rome wasn’t built in a day and these guys need long term stability. You can be fine with phosphates that high but you won’t get as good growth and colors ime. I run mine at .15 so my euphyllia and zoas are happy. It’s just in between the clean for sps and dirty for lps/softies. Dull Coloration could also a trace element issue. I dose acropower to keep my aminos up. Lighting can also play a role. We usually see much nicer colored acros that happen to be grown under kessil, reef breeder’s, ai’s, or ecotech. (Sorry, I left out a few just to keep it short). The main reason for this is the amount of color channels. When you have so many channels, you can tune the spectrum to be optimal for coloration. With most black boxes you don’t really have that option.

Bpb said:
Haven't seen it mentioned yet, but at a year old you can box up your ammonia and nitrite test kits and save them if you cycle a new tank within the next couple years before they expire. Unless you do something to kill several fish and notice large amounts of corals dying, you shouldn't concern yourself with ammonia or nitrite. That should save you some maintenance time.

Secondly I would strongly suggest buying or renting a PAR meter...Probably renting one or borrowing would be more economical. Your SPS will be happier and show better colors over 300 par. your Softies and LPS will show happier colors and polyp size under 100-200 par (in my experience). If you know your light levels you can place corals alot more appropriately rather than just guessing.

Third. Phosphate is a bit high. I've seen plenty of nice SPS tanks with PO4 that high, but it's more of an exception to the rule. I'd advise lowering it below 0.1 slowly over a couple weeks. Test that more frequently with a high quality low range high resolution test kit (not the API kit).

Otherwise just be patient. SPS can take some time to start looking pretty even when everything is perfect
[/QUOTE

EMeyer · Mar 18, 2020

I will add that even my best SPS tank, where I get good growth and color, most Acros go brown for me when I first add them. Then they color back up to varying degrees, depending on the tank.