New reefer cycle question

[JaykS]

For a week now my Nitrites have been stuck at 0.1 and Nitrates at 5, both I’m testing with salifert. Is the cycle complete, should I do a water change, or will that 0.1 drop out? I know with ammonia test it is always cloudy so it’s hard to tell 0 from the lowest

 

[Reef.]

For a week now my Nitrites have been stuck at 0.1 and Nitrates at 5, both I’m testing with salifert. Is the cycle complete, should I do a water change, or will that 0.1 drop out? I know with ammonia test it is always cloudy so it’s hard to tell 0 from the lowest

at 5 it does not sound cycled.

how much ammonia did you use to start the cycle?

once cycled your nitrates are likely to be nearer 100.

the nitrate test is useless until your nitrites are 0, it’s the way the test works, it will give the incorrect result until the nitrites are 0.

 

[Lasse]

Are you sure on your 0.1 nitrites.If your nitrites is 0.1 - your reading of 5 ppm nitrate is false. It is caused of interference from the nitrite ion and the interference factor is between 50 and 100 - depending of the brand in use. I think salifert have a 50 fold interference - it means that all of your 5 ppm nitrate is caused by interference of nitrite. Not a prove of a cycled tank. However - the NH3/NH4 is more important in saltwater.

In order to give you any advises - I need to know how you cycle the tank - which method?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[JaykS]

at 5 it does not sound cycled.

how much ammonia did you use to start the cycle?

once cycled your nitrates are likely to be nearer 100.

the nitrate test is useless until your nitrites are 0, it’s the way the test works, it will give the incorrect result until the nitrites are 0.

I didn’t realize that, thank you!

 

[JaykS]

Are you sure on your 0.1 nitrites.If your nitrites is 0.1 - your reading of 5 ppm nitrate is false. It is caused of interference from the nitrite ion and the interference factor is between 50 and 100 - depending of the brand in use. I think salifert have a 50 fold interference - it means that all of your 5 ppm nitrate is caused by interference of nitrite. Not a prove of a cycled tank. However - the NH3/NH4 is more important in saltwater.

In order to give you any advises - I need to know how you cycle the tank - which method?

Sincerely Lasse

I cycled with Brightwells fishless method, QuikCyl Ammonia and Microbacter Start XLM

 

[vetteguy53081]

tank is very new. There will be a series of changes.

 

[Reef.]

I didn’t realize that, thank you!

just to be clear, the test will give an increased nitrate reading, if nitrites are not 0, not a reduced reading, that is why I think your tank is not cycled.

once cycled you normally do a water change to get rid of the high nitrates, you try and get them down to a low lvl of around 10-20 with big water changes, your nitrate of 5 is not normal for a newly cycled tank.

my guess is, you need to wait a bit longer, or you never used the correct amount of ammonia to start the cycle.

 

[JaykS]

tank is very new. There will be a series of changes.

It’s been on its cycle for 2 weeks now but yes I agree still very new, just a quarantine tank

 

[JaykS]

just to be clear, the test will give an increased nitrate reading, if nitrites are not 0, not a reduced reading, that is why I think your tank is not cycled.

once cycled you normally do a water change to get rid of the high nitrates, you try and get them down to a low lvl of around 10-20 with big water changes, your nitrate of 5 is not normal for a newly cycled tank.

my guess is, you need to wait a bit longer, or you never used the correct amount of ammonia to start the cycle.

That makes sense to me, thank you! I was guessing not enough ammonia at the beginning either, however Brightwell advises against adding more because it may not show up on test kits.

The tank is only a quarantine tank with nothing in it and nothing going in until I hit that Nitrate number then my water change. You think adding more even though it may not show up on tests is alright? I’m guessing even if ammonia didn’t show the Nitrate would eventually? Again absolutely no living things in the tank atm, just the bacteria

 

[Reef.]

That makes sense to me, thank you! I was guessing not enough ammonia at the beginning either, however Brightwell advises against adding more because it may not show up on test kits.

The tank is only a quarantine tank with nothing in it and nothing going in until I hit that Nitrate number then my water change. You think adding more even though it may not show up on tests is alright? I’m guessing even if ammonia didn’t show the Nitrate would eventually? Again absolutely no living things in the tank atm, just the bacteria

yes, I use Dr Tim’s ammonia because you know exactly the amount you are adding, you can add ammonia if you believe you have low ammonia in the tank, add to get to 2ppm test to see it shows, then test again the next day, if it is still showing then you are not cycled, if it’s 0 you are, but I understand the ammonia tests are not great, I used salifert and it is not good at detecting low ammonia, maybe try the Red Sea test I believed it’s better.

 

[Lasse]

your nitrate of 5 is not normal for a newly cycled tank.

Depends of method used. If you use a lot of NH3/NH4 in order to start - its true - but if you start it with very low ammonia input (as with a sparsely feed fish) - it will not be an nitrate spike. However if it 0.1 in nitrite - the whole 5 ppm nitrate is false. What I understand Brightwells methode is a low ammonia adding methode. I would use the nitrite readings in order to see if the system is cycled or not. Nitrite is more easy to measure compared with NH3/NH4 and a fully cycled tank should more or less seamless transport NH3/NH4 into NO3 without a NO2 upbuild

Sincerely Lasse

 

[JaykS]

yes, I use Dr Tim’s ammonia because you know exactly the amount you are adding, you can add ammonia if you believe you have low ammonia in the tank, add to get to 2ppm test to see it shows, then test again the next day, if it is still showing then you are not cycled, if it’s 0 you are, but I understand the ammonia tests are not great, I used salifert and it is not good at detecting low ammonia, maybe try the Red Sea test I believed it’s better.

I was wondering also about trying the red sea test for ammonia, I guess it wouldn’t hurt

Depends of method used. If you use a lot of NH3/NH4 in order to start - its true - but if you start it with very low ammonia input (as with a sparsely feed fish) - it will not be an nitrate spike. However if it 0.1 in nitrite - the whole 5 ppm nitrate is false. What I understand Brightwells methode is a low ammonia adding methode. I would use the nitrite readings in order to see if the system is cycled or not. Nitrite is more easy to measure compared with NH3/NH4 and a fully cycled tank should more or less seamless transport NH3/NH4 into NO3 without a NO2 upbuild

Sincerely Lasse

What is your opinion then about adding more ammonia? I know Brightwell advises against but without anything living would it really hurt besides the cycle taking a bit longer? This is only a quarantine tank it’s been cycling for 2 weeks and the main tank is 4 days in, I’m doing a 3 to 4 month cycle, as WWC suggests on the main tank so something longer probably won’t affect anything quarantine wise.

 

[Reef.]

Ammonia can’t hurt the tank, it’s what fish add when they poo.

 

[Lasse]

I normally cycle my tanks in 3 weeks - faster if I use old water and gravel. i always use a fish as ammonia provider. But I think it is very important to stick into one methode - and not make any mish-mash between methodes. I would follow Brightwells recommendations if I decided to use their methode.

For the books - yes fish add ammonia - but not mainly through the poo - they add it (to at least 80 %) with help of an active transport through the gills

Sincerely Lasse

 

[JaykS]

I

I normally cycle my tanks in 3 weeks - faster if I use old water and gravel. i always use a fish as ammonia provider. But I think it is very important to stick into one methode - and not make any mish-mash between methodes. I would follow Brightwells recommendations if I decided to use their methode.

For the books - yes fish add ammonia - but not mainly through the poo - they add it (to at least 80 %) with help of an active transport through the gills

Sincerely Lasse

I guess I’ll just be patient and wait it out lol, I got this far already ‍ I was also wondering if it’s taking longer because I only really have a handful of dry rock rubble and small sponge from a HOB filter for bacteria to colonize on? Either way thanks for both of your inputs, the nitrite and nitrate interaction is not something I knew about before and was very helpful

 

[Lasse]

small sponge from a HOB filter

If there is enough of flow (read a lot of oxygen) through these sponge filters are - IMO - the best nitrification filter you can have.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[JaykS]

If there is enough of flow (read a lot of oxygen) through these sponge filters are - IMO - the best nitrification filter you can have.

Sincerely Lasse

Definitely decent flow going through it, just a patients game for now

 

[Reef.]

For the books - yes fish add ammonia - but not mainly through the poo - they add it (to at least 80 %) with help of an active transport through the gills

Sincerely Lasse

Also for the books, I didn’t say only from poo or mainly from poo, the point I was making was fish add ammonia to the tank, so adding ammonia to check a cycle wouldn’t harm the tank.

 

[brandon429]

very handy info: if you drained your system and refilled with clean water, and oxidation tested, it would pass.


There's many ways to cycle and that above is one...you're done. If you want to consider nitrite, you can, but I didnt above because its not required.

The 4 month cycle is not for ammonia control, ability to carry a full bioload. Its for benthic food web establishment, rock leaching, early algae phasing to pass. A cycle is the point you can carry bioload reliably, and that time is now. maturation point is still out.

you can still wait 4 mos, but nothing is required to keep bac alive or in place. You can stop all actions, let water swirl, stays cycled until 4 mos. my main remark is how predictable duration time is for cycle assessment, not that you have to start now.

 

[andrewey]

very handy info: if you drained your system and refilled with clean water, and oxidation tested, it would pass.


There's many ways to cycle and that above is one...you're done. If you want to consider nitrite, you can, but I didnt above because its not required.

The 4 month cycle is not for ammonia control, ability to carry a full bioload. Its for benthic food web establishment, rock leaching, early algae phasing to pass. A cycle is the point you can carry bioload reliably, and that time is now. maturation point is still out.

you can still wait 4 mos, but nothing is required to keep bac alive or in place. You can stop all actions, let water swirl, stays cycled until 4 mos. my main remark is how predictable duration time is for cycle assessment, not that you have to start now.

Can you clarify what you mean by "oxidation tested" and "pass"? Without clarification, it's impossible to tell whether the statement you made is meaningful/accurate or not.