New reefer: quarantine clown death.

The Coug · Apr 13, 2020

Is this ick? New to reefing, I purchased a stocked used tank.

I got two clown fish this weekend and one just died this AM suddenly (was eating yesterday). The other appears fine so far, should I start treating with copper? If it gets full course of copper is it truly safe to put it in my main display after 4 weeks with my other fish?

For my quarantine tank set up I used filter pad from main sump and a HOB filter as biological filtration. The water in the tank was new RODI saltwater I made up for water changes. Should I have used display tank water to make up the quarantine tank water? Ammonia, nitrates are at zero. pH is 8.2. Salinity at 1.026.
Speaking with my LFS, they think it is water quality issues since I didn’t cycle or use display tank water. They said these captive bred clowns are typically disease free and this is too quick for disease. Any advice is appreciated.

NatD · Apr 14, 2020

Hi there. Sorry to hear about your clown.

Bumping this up for you.

Was he in qt when he died? How does the other one look?

The Coug · Apr 14, 2020

Well, second fish died this AM. Yes, to spots. These pictures are of the second fish that I took last night.

My LFS says the losses are due to my water causing stress and not disease since I didn’t use display water in the quarantine tank initially. I did put in filter pads that had been in my display sump for a month so I think that should have been enough biological filtration which is what I read on the guides.

I still read zero for ammonia. Salinity and temp are at 0.026 and 78 degrees.

NatD · Apr 14, 2020

I agree with you on the cause. I always just put filter pad in my display's sump for a couple days, then add to QT with freshly mixed saltwater. Works fine. That's pretty clearly disease.

Looks like they've lost you as a customer. Poor little clowns.

So sorry.

Fishbird · Apr 14, 2020

Is your DT the stocked used tank? Did the clowns come in that tank or were they a separate purchase? If the used tank has or has had any fish in it or any new wet items of any kind added in the past 76 days then it is possible that the disease came from that tank and was transferred to your QT via the sponges.

That said, that is clearly a disease so your LFS is not being helpful by denying that.

I have also been told that captive bred fish are less likely to carry disease but - it isn't impossible for them to have come from a tank with disease AND the whole captive bred are less likely to come with parasites only is true if they've only ever been in systems that contain only captive bred fish. Those tanks can't share water or filtration or anything else with tanks that contain wild caught fish. Does your LFS keep captive bred and wild caught fish in the same system (not necessarily the same tank)? One place near me has a separate system for captive bred fish and one place mixes wild caught and captive bred.

The Coug · Apr 14, 2020

Thank for your reply! My display tank is the stocked used tank (4 fish, established coral). The clowns and QT water has had no contact with my display tank, so at least my existing fish are safe.

The LFS has water for these clowns as part of a big system of tanks I think. There are ~25 little tanks that hold clowns, inverts, gobies, etc that I assume are on the same system. I have gotten some crabs, snails, and shrimp from those tanks that have gone into my display but I’ve not mixed water.

For my quarantine set-up I assume I should bleach soak everything, let it air dry, then restart it in about a week? Is this a reasonable approach to sterilizing the disease off it? Anything I should toss besides used filter media?

svogun · Apr 14, 2020

Looks like velvet to me. And the rapid death makes more sense with velvet then ick. Nevertheless it does not appear to be your QT system as your LFS indicated. My suspicion is that LFS treats their tanks with low levels of Cu although if it is many tanks on one big system that wouldnt make sense considering there are inverts in those tanks.

I have found recently that with livestock, I've had to keep a minimum therapeutic level of Copper in the QT from day 1 to avoid fish succumbing to velvet which appears to be prevalent. The few times I have observed only in QT without medication I haven't been able to get the Cu levels up fast enough. Food for thought for your next purchase. Good luck!

The Coug · Apr 14, 2020

svogun said:
Looks like velvet to me. And the rapid death makes more sense with velvet then ick. Nevertheless it does not appear to be your QT system as your LFS indicated. My suspicion is that LFS treats their tanks with low levels of Cu although if it is many tanks on one big system that wouldnt make sense considering there are inverts in those tanks.

I have found recently that with livestock, I've had to keep a minimum therapeutic level of Copper in the QT from day 1 to avoid fish succumbing to velvet which appears to be prevalent. The few times I have observed only in QT without medication I haven't been able to get the Cu levels up fast enough. Food for thought for your next purchase. Good luck!

When to you stop the copper then? Do you do 14 days from the start of QT?

JoshO · Apr 14, 2020

Your salinity is at 0.026??

vetteguy53081 · Apr 14, 2020

Looks like velvet and/or brooklynella (clown disease). A freshwater bath followed by Formalin bath would have be best bet for cure. Is fish alive and eating yet ?

JoshO · Apr 14, 2020

vetteguy53081 said:
Looks like velvet and/or brooklynella (clown disease). A freshwater bath followed by Formalin bath would have be best bet for cure. Is fish alive and eating yet ?

They've both died I think

Hugh Mann · Apr 14, 2020

Second Velvet. Somehow it got into my tank, probably from a snail I bought shortly before the outbreak. Killed 5 otherwise healthy fish pretty much overnight. Treating with copper and the survivors are doing great.

Only way to keep them alive while ramping up the copper levels is a freshwater dip. Which has to be done asap. Velvet kills frighteningly fast.

The Coug · Apr 14, 2020

JoshO said:
Your salinity is at 0.026??

Crap, that’s a little low right?

JoshO · Apr 14, 2020

The Coug said:
Crap, that’s a little low right?

And then some! Double check this!! It should be 1.026 not 0.026

The Coug · Apr 14, 2020

Yes, the second fish died this AM. My LFS now says that I probably would have been better off putting the clowns right into my display tank. The stress and not using DT water for the QT tank is the culprit for causing the outbreak.
But I feel like this situation just reinforces the need for QT.

vetteguy53081 · Apr 14, 2020

The Coug said:
Yes, the second fish died this AM. My LFS now says that I probably would have been better off putting the clowns right into my display tank. The stress and not using DT water for the QT tank is the culprit for causing the outbreak.
But I feel like this situation just reinforces the need for QT.

LFS said what ??? Basically the LFS is saying you'd be better off infecting the display tank than to lose clowns in QT.
SMH

svogun · Apr 14, 2020

The Coug said:
When to you stop the copper then? Do you do 14 days from the start of QT?

I treat for a full 30 days. Then remove copper and do 2 rounds of prazipro for flukes

JoshO · Apr 14, 2020

The Coug said:
Yes, the second fish died this AM. My LFS now says that I probably would have been better off putting the clowns right into my display tank. The stress and not using DT water for the QT tank is the culprit for causing the outbreak.
But I feel like this situation just reinforces the need for QT.

You need a new lfs! This is terrible advice. I'm glad you see that this shows you should QT. As long as you acclimate a fish to the QT correctly then there should be no issue, provided the parameters are good!