New refugium and now Dinos!

[jmichaelh7]

I am at zero phosphates, Nitrat .48 and no signs of Dinos or hair algae. Super blue, clear water. Brown algae gets on the back wall and panels, but I magic erase them off my acrylic.

I started doing once a day, frozen brine only what they can eat 6 small gobies in a 12 gallon system. Now, after your post I am concerned that with undetectable phosphate, I may be up for trouble.

I will test my water again to see if I can get a little phosphates to show up. Maybe increase the feeding just a hair.

I am thinking of not draining the food now as I heard it has some phosphates in it.

I never thought I would need to increase nutrients. I have always been preventing it.

but again I never had a refugium thriving with chaeto

 

[Shannon_Hill]

I am at zero phosphates, Nitrat .48 and no signs of Dinos or hair algae. Super blue, clear water. Brown algae gets on the back wall and panels, but I magic erase them off my acrylic.

I started doing once a day, frozen brine only what they can eat 6 small gobies in a 12 gallon system. Now, after your post I am concerned that with undetectable phosphate, I may be up for trouble.

I will test my water again to see if I can get a little phosphates to show up. Maybe increase the feeding just a hair.

Even in the ocean, there is some detectable level of phosphate and nitrates. It’s been determined that different coral, like different nutrient levels. SPS do very well with very clean water (phos .01-.03, NO3 < 5), whereas softies and LPS prefer PO4 .03-.1 and NO3 5-20. These ranges vary, depending upon the source. I run a mixed reef so I shoot for PO4 .03-.08 and NO3 5-10

 

[Shannon_Hill]

We always want to keep nutrients low, but never 0.

 

[Aqua Man]

I am thinking of not draining the food now as I heard it has some phosphates in it.

This did not work for me. The other reason I stopped draining the liquid is to feed smaller filter feeders. Sponges, feather worms, etc

might be easier to just lower your photo period instead. Maybe 6 hrs?

curious why you added the fuge to begin with?

 

[Micro-Reefs Aquarium]

I am thinking of not draining the food now as I heard it has some phosphates in it.

I never thought I would need to increase nutrients. I have always been preventing it.

but again I never had a refugium thriving with chaeto

Ditto to what you said, I will do the same!

 

[Micro-Reefs Aquarium]

We always want to keep nutrients low, but never 0.

Two weeks ago, I had zero nitrates and zero phosphates; tank is going on 3 months. So, I up the feeding and tested this Sunday and get 0 phosphates, but .48 Nitrates.

Should I be concerned about the phosphates, I wasn't adding the liquid from the brine shrimp and I don't fee a lot, I scrape the frozen cube and give them only what they can finish.

A frozen cube might last me 5 days...

 

[Micro-Reefs Aquarium]

Even in the ocean, there is some detectable level of phosphate and nitrates. It’s been determined that different coral, like different nutrient levels. SPS do very well with very clean water (phos .01-.03, NO3 < 5), whereas softies and LPS prefer PO4 .03-.1 and NO3 5-20. These ranges vary, depending upon the source. I run a mixed reef so I shoot for PO4 .03-.08 and NO3 5-10

I have .48 nitrates, and 0.00 phosphates. I have zero corals, only 6 small gobies. Tank is going on 3 months stable. My nitrates use to be 40ppm when I was feeding too much frozen brine each day and barely did water changes as it was cycling. Then I get the Cheato and 9watt IM Cheato LED the red and blues are intense. I black out the chambers in my media basket and in two weeks I go from tiny golf ball in each chamber to huge tennis ball in each chamber where I had to prune it and sell it back to the LFS for $10 store credit. That was my first two weeks with this cheato and that is when my nitrate and phosphates disappeared. Before that I had detectable phosphates.

 

[Dkmoo]

Dinos is not a "high nutrient" vs "low nutrient" issue. Its a tank instability issue. Its always going to be present in tanks but most time its kept in check by biodiversity and nutrient competition.

Anytime you change anything in the nutrient process chain, you risk it popping up. In newer tanks its more common bc you lack the biodiversity to mitigate the impact from the living change. Thats why for some it seems like "nothing is working" bc they try all these "kill agents" or limit the growth conditons, which may have inhibited some dino growth, but in reality did a worse number on the biodiversity in the microfauna so dino comes back with a vengeance

Try to feed more, and let your take get dirty with film algae and other green stuff - the point of "dirty water" isn't that it somehow kills the dino, its that these extra nutrient and film algae will be feeding your pods and other microfauna population. This, giving enough time, will slowly outcompete the dinos and keep it back in check

 

[Suohhen]

Rinsing food has been shown to have almost no effect in phosphate but it can definitely rinse away a lot of the potassium and it is just generally a huge waste of time. If you want to change phosphate input the better method is to change to foods higher in it. Many frozen foods like mysis are .01% phosphate while algae based foods like Formula 2 and SFB Emerald Entre are .1%. Also dry food is generally higher than frozen.

 

[Micro-Reefs Aquarium]

Rinsing food has been shown to have almost no effect in phosphate but it can definitely rinse away a lot of the potassium and it is just generally a huge waste of time. If you want to change phosphate input the better method is to change to foods higher in it. Many frozen foods like mysis are .01% phosphate while algae based foods like Formula 2 and SFB Emerald Entre are .1%. Also dry food is generally higher than frozen.

How about frozen brine? How much phosphates?

 

[Suohhen]

How about frozen brine? How much phosphates?

Typically. 01%. With frozen the two ends of the spectrum are typically shrimp .01% to algae like the two I mentioned at .1% which is 10x the amount but even those are based in a mix of shrimp and algae. Genererally the food brands try to limit phosphate but I have seen higher levels than that and some brands don't announce PO4 content. Typically dry food is 1.5% PO4 which when adjusted for lack of moisture is somewhere between .15 and .07% but dry food is also much easier to overfeed.

 

[Timfish]

Every time a change is made to a system single cell agaa and cyanobacteria will be the first to take advantage. I expect to increase manual removal whenever changes are made to aquascaping, water flow or lighting.

 

[jmichaelh7]

I spent so much to start up the refugium... not sure if I need it if this is causing issues like Dyno or cyano.

I only started it so I can keep copepods thriving and feed the mandarin. The mandarin died and now I’m scratching my head?

 

[Micro-Reefs Aquarium]

Typically. 01%. With frozen the two ends of the spectrum are typically shrimp .01% to algae like the two I mentioned at .1% which is 10x the amount but even those are based in a mix of shrimp and algae. Genererally the food brands try to limit phosphate but I have seen higher levels than that and some brands don't announce PO4 content. Typically dry food is 1.5% PO4 which when adjusted for lack of moisture is somewhere between .15 and .07% but dry food is also much easier to overfeed.

Thanks for the valuable data. I will try to get some phosphates to show up.

 

[Suohhen]

I spent so much to start up the refugium... not sure if I need it if this is causing issues like Dyno or cyano.

I only started it so I can keep copepods thriving and feed the mandarin. The mandarin died and now I’m scratching my head?

Overfiltering is definitely a thing but you can compensate by increasing bioload, changing/increasing feeding and just as TimFish said these 'cycles' are normal and why maintenance is such a big part of this hobby. We tried for years in this hobby to keep ULN which has it's issues but can work.
Mandarinfish are notoriously hard to keep for a number of reasons. Chief among them is feeding, but they are an incredibly timid fish which make feeding so hard. Look at another Goby which many websites list as easy which has a terrible reputation for longterm success in reef tanks. The Diamond Goby is far easier to acclimate to prepared food and yet look at this.

The only way to guarantee success with such timid fish is to either qt or put them in first, which isn'treally realistic. I personally have kept fish like this in qt for up to 6 months and even still spend months target feeding them in the mt and after that twice weekly. Difficult fish are a commitment.