New tank build plumbing

[SaltyGinger42]

Hey everyone, I built a new 90 gallon set up for my new house. I'm a complete beginner when it comes to the sump plumbing. I seem to be suffering from an air lock in the sump and I'm clueless on how to even begin to correct the issue. Any advice would be appreciated

 

[MarineandReef Jaron]

I think there could be a couple of problems.

1. It looks like you have a single drain split into two connections on the sump each above a filter sock. Water will always travel the path of least resistance. So in your case the water will almost all go through the sock on the left the sock on the right will only get water if the sock on the left plugs up. To fix this you would want to split the pipes evenly you need a T on the main drain splitting it to both sump connections but the T should be oriented with the outlets left and right rather than down and to the right. This will provide even resistance and make better use of the second sock.

2. This is hard to tell for sure in the video, but it looks like you have periodic gushes of water falling into the sump. This is a sign your return pump is too large for the drain. A gravity drain that is not a full siphon can not handle that much water. What is likely happening is your drain is turning into a complete siphon for a couple of seconds and then gasping air until the water level in the overflow box increases enough for it to be a full siphon again. This will make things very loud and it also is not very safe. You are pushing the drain to its limits. The best thing to do is lower the return pump flow or add a second drain to handle the flow.

 

[SaltyGinger42]

I think there could be a couple of problems.

1. It looks like you have a single drain split into two connections on the sump each above a filter sock. Water will always travel the path of least resistance. So in your case the water will almost all go through the sock on the left the sock on the right will only get water if the sock on the left plugs up. To fix this you would want to split the pipes evenly you need a T on the main drain splitting it to both sump connections but the T should be oriented with the outlets left and right rather than down and to the right. This will provide even resistance and make better use of the second sock.

2. This is hard to tell for sure in the video, but it looks like you have periodic gushes of water falling into the sump. This is a sign your return pump is too large for the drain. A gravity drain that is not a full siphon can not handle that much water. What is likely happening is your drain is turning into a complete siphon for a couple of seconds and then gasping air until the water level in the overflow box increases enough for it to be a full siphon again. This will make things very loud and it also is not very safe. You are pushing the drain to its limits. The best thing to do is lower the return pump flow or add a second drain to handle the flow.

So as far as it was advertised and what I researched the second sock is supposed to act as a secondary and only start filtering when the first become clogged so I can get to the first and clean it out. I just followed what the video on the sump said and built it accordingly. What should my total gph be on the tank? I had a fairly large return pump on it but I replaced it with a smaller one now that I read your post and the burbling has ceased completely. Maybe the pump was just too much for the drain. I'm running a 550 gph pump now with no burbling. The tank is a 90 gallon long and my sump is 30 gallons total. Would an 800 gph to 900 gph pump be better. It seems with this smaller one that I'm not getting as much flow through the sump as I should be. And should I make it a plan to switch the plumping to go straight through both socks or keep it as a primary and a secondary? Thank you for your advice!!!

 

[MarineandReef Jaron]

So as far as it was advertised and what I researched the second sock is supposed to act as a secondary and only start filtering when the first become clogged so I can get to the first and clean it out. I just followed what the video on the sump said and built it accordingly. What should my total gph be on the tank? I had a fairly large return pump on it but I replaced it with a smaller one now that I read your post and the burbling has ceased completely. Maybe the pump was just too much for the drain. I'm running a 550 gph pump now with no burbling. The tank is a 90 gallon long and my sump is 30 gallons total. Would an 800 gph to 900 gph pump be better. It seems with this smaller one that I'm not getting as much flow through the sump as I should be. And should I make it a plan to switch the plumping to go straight through both socks or keep it as a primary and a secondary? Thank you for your advice!!!

I would recommend no more than 600 GPH for a single 1in drain that is not full siphon. The 550 GPH sounds just about right. I bet most of the noise was because the pump was too large for the drain.

 

[SaltyGinger42]

I would recommend no more than 600 GPH for a single 1in drain that is not full siphon. The 550 GPH sounds just about right. I bet most of the noise was because the pump was too large for the drain.

Is there anyway I could make the existing plumbing into a full siphon? I'm not very good with the plumbing yet or figuring out new ways to build it. It just seems like the 550 isn't giving enough flow. The water doesn't "waterfall" over the edge of the overflow box and it doesn't seem like there's a lot of flow in the sump either. I can't see any water flowing into my refugium chamber and there's hardly any flow over the teeth that leads to my mechanical filter and return chamber. That's why I got the bigger pump in the first place but it was definitely too much and was 100% the cause of the extra noise. Thank you for the help I really appreciate you!!!

 

[MarineandReef Jaron]

Most people with a Marineland overflow like you have would make both holes drains. One Full Syphon with a valve below the bulkhead and one as an emergency drain. They would then run the return over the back rim. This would let you substantially increase the flow. It is more than double what you have with a single gravity drain and it would likely be alto quieter but it is more complicated and would require a replumb.

 

[SaltyGinger42]

Most people with a Marineland overflow like you have would make both holes drains. One Full Syphon with a valve below the bulkhead and one as an emergency drain. They would then run the return over the back rim. This would let you substantially increase the flow. It is more than double what you have with a single gravity drain and it would likely be alto quieter but it is more complicated and would require a replumb.

Thank you! I'll do some research and figure out how to best move forward. Weather it be a replumb or whatever I have to do to make it work. I appreciate your help!

 

[SaltyGinger42]

Most people with a Marineland overflow like you have would make both holes drains. One Full Syphon with a valve below the bulkhead and one as an emergency drain. They would then run the return over the back rim. This would let you substantially increase the flow. It is more than double what you have with a single gravity drain and it would likely be alto quieter but it is more complicated and would require a replumb.

Is the style you are talking about here an Herbie style overflow? Is that what you are suggesting? And do you think I'd be able to just drain the overflow chamber and change the plumbing out while leaving most of the water in the tank or should I just move everyone to my other tank and drain it down completely? If you have any pictures of your own or of a diagram of how I would build this I'd be very appreciative! I plan on replumbing in a couple of weeks so I'm trying to get it all lined up

 

[MarineandReef Jaron]

Is the style you are talking about here an Herbie style overflow? Is that what you are suggesting? And do you think I'd be able to just drain the overflow chamber and change the plumbing out while leaving most of the water in the tank or should I just move everyone to my other tank and drain it down completely? If you have any pictures of your own or of a diagram of how I would build this I'd be very appreciative! I plan on replumbing in a couple of weeks so I'm trying to get it all lined up

Yes a Herbie-style drain would be 1 full siphon and one secondary trickle drain. You should be able to drain the water out of the overflow box and then replace the plumbing. This would let you get a lot more flow through the overflow, and it would also be quieter.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hey everyone, I built a new 90 gallon set up for my new house. I'm a complete beginner when it comes to the sump plumbing. I seem to be suffering from an air lock in the sump and I'm clueless on how to even begin to correct the issue. Any advice would be appreciated

On the drain split, I suggest both a shut off valve and the tubes going further into the socks to prevent splashing and noise - extensions will work

 

[SaltyGinger42]

Yes a Herbie-style drain would be 1 full siphon and one secondary trickle drain. You should be able to drain the water out of the overflow box and then replace the plumbing. This would let you get a lot more flow through the overflow, and it would also be quieter.

Thanks!! You've helped me understand this a lot. I really appreciate you. I hope you have a fantastic day!

 

[SaltyGinger42]

On the drain split, I suggest both a shut off valve and the tubes going further into the socks to prevent splashing and noise - extensions will work

I do have the tubes extended about 3 to 4 inches down into the socks. I think where it's a gravity fed system I'm just trying to push too much water through it. I get a little flow through my sump right now but it's not enough and I have a decent sized return pump on it. If I put the smaller pump on it the noise stops completely but then it's like I get ABSOLUTELY 0 flow through the sump. Yeah water still slowly cycles through it but it just doesn't seem like enough. Any and all tips and tricks are welcome. I honestly have no clue what I'm doing yet, I'm still learning as I go along. Thanks vetteguy!

 

[SaltyGinger42]

Yes a Herbie-style drain would be 1 full siphon and one secondary trickle drain. You should be able to drain the water out of the overflow box and then replace the plumbing. This would let you get a lot more flow through the overflow, and it would also be quieter.

What size pipes would you recommend for the full siphon pipe and trickle pipe?

 

[MarineandReef Jaron]

What size pipes would you recommend for the full siphon pipe and trickle pipe?

Since you have 1in bulkheads I would keep both drains 1in.

 

[slythy]

What size pipes would you recommend for the full siphon pipe and trickle pipe?

I would use the max your Drain size is. Then you put a gate valve on the full syphon pipe to control the flow to match your return pipe.

 

[twentyleagues]

What size pipes would you recommend for the full siphon pipe and trickle pipe?

Safety says the 3/4" that is your return currently would be your full siphon. The 1" would be emergency.

 

[Dburr1014]

I do have the tubes extended about 3 to 4 inches down into the socks. I think where it's a gravity fed system I'm just trying to push too much water through it. I get a little flow through my sump right now but it's not enough and I have a decent sized return pump on it. If I put the smaller pump on it the noise stops completely but then it's like I get ABSOLUTELY 0 flow through the sump. Yeah water still slowly cycles through it but it just doesn't seem like enough. Any and all tips and tricks are welcome. I honestly have no clue what I'm doing yet, I'm still learning as I go along. Thanks vetteguy!

No, no valves on a Herbie, ever. That's a flood waiting to happen!

 

[Dburr1014]

You can use some of what you have.
The bulkhead will "control" the flow amount.
Cut the big pipe in the overflow area. Cap with a screen. This will be full syphone with a gate valve below.
Looks like you glued the return. I would replace the bulkhead if you did. You can use the pipe if it's not glued. (doesn't need to be glued in the overflow box.. Where's it going to leak to?) lol.
The u" channel for the loc-line can be reused if you run the return over the back into the box.
Emergency line should be an 1" or less below the wier for less noise.

 

[MarineandReef Jaron]

No, no valves on a Herbie, ever. That's a flood waiting to happen!

Without a valve, it is not a Herbie. You should never use a valve on a single drain overflow but as long as you have a non valved secondary drain you are good to use a valve on your primary.

 

[Dburr1014]

Without a valve, it is not a Herbie. You should never use a valve on a single drain overflow but as long as you have a non valved secondary drain you are good to use a valve on your primary.

Oops, yes, mis-spoke. That's what I meant.
Thanks!