New tank no cycle?

[Acro maniac]

I'm new to posting but I have been breezing the pages hear for a while .
Anyway I have 6 year old mixed sps and lps tank I recently rescaped which produced lots of pieces/fragments of coral . I had to break some colonies to get them out of the tank. In the past I would bring them to the LFS but I have not been happy with the return. Most of the time they just end up in the yard or at a buddies (no more room) tank.
So here's my plan is have a 20long and a10 gal sump with everything to be setup.
Can I take a filter sock out of the 90gal, 30 gal water (my water change volume weekly) with what ever detritus I can blow out of my rocks ,and couple pieces of rock from the same tank and put them all in the new tank successful without going through a cycle.
I would be testing before adding corals to make sure. It's kinda like moving and established tank. I ve also had to remove everything from a friend's display to move it for an install of a new sump, that was successful.
I was just trying to get an idea if anyone has done this successfully?
Thanks for your imput

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

technically the tank has to or will be cycling. Live sand live rock bacteria cycle. If you mean the ugly phase folks call the cycle
It should work just fine. All of my Nanos that's how I did it. I generally boght new live sand used rock out of my display tank. And Used water. I didn't use detritus it's just that IMO. Never really went throug an ugly phase at all either as I recall.

 

[CarrieB]

Yes, don't start by adding waste to the new tank. You want as little organic waste as possible so that the rock can handle the filtration to avoid a cycle.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

You can't avoid the cycle. It's an overdose of nutrients rotting you want to avoid.

 

[Acro maniac]

I appreciate the info I thought the same thing about the detritus after I sent the post through.
Just a thought but how long does it take for rock to become seeded? Because I do have some old rock that's been dried out I could add to the current tank until I get the other tank up and running

 

[CarrieB]

I'm not sure how long it would take to seed the additional rock from established rock. Couple of weeks maybe?

If you are only adding coral the bioload is going to be low. I would be tempted to set everything up with the additional rock and test for a week to see if you get any ammonia or nitrite spike. If not, start adding coral slowly and monitor. Some people would probably recommend adding some ammonia or fish food and seeing if the tank handles the load by processing the waste before adding anything.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Not 100% myself. Really ther is no five second rule when it comes to bacteria
So immediately. But well seeded? Dunno.
If you have some established and the new seeded rock and live sand it should be fine.
And oh yes.... Wait a week or two just see what happens.

And yea. The ammonia test would be most accurate.

 

[Acro maniac]

The idea is to add some zoos and a few pieces of cap and see what happens before putting the good stuff in. I also have a ducan that hosts a clown I'd like to put that In there because it getting to big and taking up to much room. That clown would be the only fish in that tank. If testing allows (ammonia and nitrate)

 

[Acro maniac]

Not 100% myself. Really ther is no five second rule when it comes to bacteria
So immediately. But well seeded? Dunno.
If you have some established and the new seeded rock and live sand it should be fine.
And oh yes.... Wait a week or two just see what happens.

And yea. The ammonia test would be most accurate.

I run BB so no sand in main tank. Although I do have a couple cups of sand from the Bahamas that been in a sealed container since July 4 weekend when we were there is put some in my tank but didn't like how light it was so I sucked it all out the next week with a WC. I could through that in its still wet .

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I run BB so no sand in main tank. Although I do have a couple cups of sand from the Bahamas that been in a sealed container since July 4 weekend when we were there is put some in my tank but didn't like how light it was so I sucked it all out the next week with a WC. I could through that in its still wet .

They do sell small bags too. Super fine is not cool.
Or add more live rock to the new tank. Both are just bacteria houses.

 

[Acro maniac]

They do sell small bags too. Super fine is not cool.
Or add more live rock to the new tank. Both are just bacteria houses.

Yep that's why I removed it but I could put it in . It will be under an egg create shouldn't blow around

 

[Elegance Coral]

You don't need sand.
The rock is where your biological filter lives. If you remove rock from your display and place it into a new glass box, you shouldn't have a "cycle". The biological filter doesn't care that you changed the glass box it's in.
The key is to not over load the biological filtration in the new tank. If you move enough rock/bacteria to support the load of the new tank, you will be fine. Detritus, or any rotting organic matter, will add to the "load" on the tank, and reduce it's carrying capacity.
I do this all the time in my own fish room, and at work. Never had a "cycle" or any other problem. I move CLEAN established LR from existing systems, and place it in new clean tanks. I add clean, new, salt water, a light if corals are involved, and at least a pump to move the water. This is all that's NEEDED.

Good luck
EC

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Yea. That works. Some say that sand esp smaller grain sand has more surface area to hose bacteria. Different from the way live rock works unless it's a DSB. More like marine pure blocks or bio media or a bag of carbon or sponge. I've always had luck with it.

And I guess I like sand.

 

[brandon429]

a cycle implies inability to handle free ammonia, and that's caused by rough transfer that kills benthics if any...bac do not die when being relocated even to vastly diff params. moved carefully, no benthics die.

recycling doesn't usually occur once set in and the algae that comes about is from nutrients upwelled in the removal process (which should be re set up in such a way as to not cause that in the new reef)

if I drain my whole reef for 20 mins down to the sand, leaving all organisms flopping in the air, and then fill it all back up 20 mins later and never cycle that is rougher handling than above and still a skip cycle...

if you disturbed an old sandbed and got a recycle that's not the same as running your transfer in such a way as to guarantee zero recycle, which can be done easily. its not that we have to or should rush, take as long to acclimate as you wish

its that if speed is required theres this thread detailing how to xfer w no cycle
http://reef2reef.com/threads/new-ta...d-cocktail-shrimp-live-rock-no-shrimp.214618/

 

[brandon429]

look at the Tampa Bay Rock thread just below this one, they are skipping cycles after shipping rocks a thousand miles.

 

[Acro maniac]

You don't need sand.
The rock is where your biological filter lives. If you remove rock from your display and place it into a new glass box, you shouldn't have a "cycle". The biological filter doesn't care that you changed the glass box it's in.
The key is to not over load the biological filtration in the new tank. If you move enough rock/bacteria to support the load of the new tank, you will be fine. Detritus, or any rotting organic matter, will add to the "load" on the tank, and reduce it's carrying capacity.
I do this all the time in my own fish room, and at work. Never had a "cycle" or any other problem. I move CLEAN established LR from existing systems, and place it in new clean tanks. I add clean, new, salt water, a light if corals are involved, and at least a pump to move the water. This is all that's NEEDED.

Good luck
EC

Nice to see you around EC it's been a couple years since I've seen any activity from you in an other location. You always brought valuable information, thanks again

 

[oldcrusty]

I appreciate the info I thought the same thing about the detritus after I sent the post through.
Just a thought but how long does it take for rock to become seeded? Because I do have some old rock that's been dried out I could add to the current tank until I get the other tank up and running

Fluval Cycle works well recently did a 56 gal and 75 gal with all new live sand live rock and one had a new wet dry filter the other was the same type filter the Tom Rapids Pro RP2 that had been running for 8 years. I took my bio balls and bacteria beads from my old canister filters and put in the new Tom Rapids Pro, I used the Fluval Cycle as directed on the bottle and after 2 weeks tank was stable. added Fluval Cycle when nitrites were above .2 about every other day. until parameters were stabilized. 2 weeks. Was able to put all my fish and corals in the tanks immediately after the first dose of Fluval Cycle. Monitored parameters daily for the first 4 months worked like a champ.